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From: Lleo on 9 Jun 2010 06:57 On 9 jun, 07:41, Joachim Parsch <s... (a)bunuel.franken.de> wrote:> Lleo schrieb: > > > > > On 9 jun, 06:36, milivella <milive... (a)gmail.com> wrote:> > > Joachim Parsch: > > > > [club players at WC] > > > > Even that may not be a record. The Brazilian clubs > > > > should have a word here. Is there a club, which was always > > > > there at the WC? > > > > I'm curious to know the answer. > > > Do you mean representation in different WC's? > > Yes. > > > Botafogo is the team who sent most players, the first WC without them > > being represented was in 1994. If we count players ceded to the > > Brasilian national team, they've also been to 15 World Cups. Adding > > 2010, where they have a player in the Uruguayan squad (Sebastian "El > > Loco" Abreu), that brings their total to 16. > > Flamengo also has sent players to 16 different WC's, though they've > > sent less players than Botafogo. > > > São Paulo has been represented in 15 consecutive WC's, from 1950 to > > 2006. > > ...and in 1934, if I checked correctly. It depends. Some people quibble that São Paulo da Floresta was actually a different club, because it closed in 1935 and re-opened later as the current SPFC. Since these events were so close to each other, I guess it is fair to count them as predecessors. > No player somewhere in the squads in 2010? Three: Gonzalo Fierro (Flamengo) in Chile's, Julio Cesar Caceres (Atlético Mineiro) in Paraguay's and Sebastian Abreu (Botafogo) in Uruguay's, apart from the ones in the Brasilian nt. > Anyway, that gives the following ranking at the moment: > > Number of WCs Number of players > > 1. Juve 17 ?? > Inter 17 > AC Milan 17 > 4. Botafogo 16 > 5. Flamengo 16 ?? > Bayern 16 > Sao Paulo 16 > > Tie breaker for places 1-3 or 4-7 should be number of players... I'm actually looking it up, for the Brasilian teams anyway :-) I had seen a list by number of players, which however double-counted players with multiple WC appearances (eg, Pelé would count 4 times for Santos) and didn't consider players ceded to foreign national teams (eg, Abreu to Uruguay). I'll try to get something out of that and post here. -- Lléo
From: Joachim Parsch on 9 Jun 2010 07:18 Lleo schrieb: > > On 9 jun, 07:41, Joachim Parsch <s... (a)bunuel.franken.de> wrote:> > Anyway, that gives the following ranking at the moment: > > > > Number of WCs Number of players > > > > 1. Juve 17 ?? > > Inter 17 > > AC Milan 17 > > 4. Botafogo 16 > > 5. Flamengo 16 ?? > > Bayern 16 > > Sao Paulo 16 > > > > Tie breaker for places 1-3 or 4-7 should be number of players... Where I guess, that Bayern comes last - in the early WCs, they usually only scraped in with one player. > I'm actually looking it up, for the Brasilian teams anyway :-) I had > seen a list by number of players, which however double-counted players > with multiple WC appearances (eg, Pel� would count 4 times for Santos) Shouldn't he count 4 times? Michael Ballack for example should be counted once for Bayer Leverkusen, and once for Bayern Munich. So it would be only fair to the score of Santos, if Pele would be worth 4 points. > and didn't consider players ceded to foreign national teams (eg, Abreu > to Uruguay). I'll try to get something out of that and post here. Thanks for your effort! Joachim
From: futbolmetrix on 9 Jun 2010 07:46 On Jun 9, 12:36 pm, milivella <milive... (a)gmail.com> wrote:> Joachim Parsch: > > > But those 16 appearances are not a record. I think > > Juventus, Inter and AC Milan have 17 appearances. > > Next trivia question: which 2 WC were these clubs missing? > > (the answer is not the same for all 3) > > Juventus = Italy, so the two missed by Italy should be the two missed > by Juve: 1930 and 1958.... am I right? 1930 is almost surely right (but it probably wouldn't be if you also count the player's club in the season following the WC: I think Raimundo Orsi joined Juve in 1930). 1958 is wrong. John Charles played for Wales. The right answer is probably 1966, with an outside shot for 1954, 1970 and even 1938. I'll have to check... D > > Inter and Milan is trickier... 1930 should be half of the answer for > them both, and I guess that they both had players in 1958. I have to > think about it! > > > Even that may not be a record. The Brazilian clubs > > should have a word here. Is there a club, which was always > > there at the WC? > > I'm curious to know the answer. > > -- > Cheers > milivella
From: futbolmetrix on 9 Jun 2010 07:54 On Jun 9, 2:46 pm, futbolmetrix <daniele.paser... (a)gmail.com> wrote:> On Jun 9, 12:36 pm, milivella <milive... (a)gmail.com> wrote:> > > Joachim Parsch: > > > > But those 16 appearances are not a record. I think > > > Juventus, Inter and AC Milan have 17 appearances. > > > Next trivia question: which 2 WC were these clubs missing? > > > (the answer is not the same for all 3) > > > Juventus = Italy, so the two missed by Italy should be the two missed > > by Juve: 1930 and 1958.... am I right? > > 1930 is almost surely right (but it probably wouldn't be if you also > count the player's club in the season following the WC: I think > Raimundo Orsi joined Juve in 1930). > > 1958 is wrong. John Charles played for Wales. > > The right answer is probably 1966, with an outside shot for 1954, 1970 > and even 1938. > > I'll have to check... > Before checking: 1934: Combi, Rosetta, Caligaris, Monti, Orsi, Borel 1938: Ferrari (?), Varglien(?) 1950: Boniperti, Parola(?), Sentimenti(?) 1954: Boniperti(?), maybe others 1958: John Charles 1962: Sivori, maybe others 1966: ? 1970: Salvadore(?) 1974: Capello, Causio(?) 1978: Almost the whole Italian starting 11 1982: The majority of the Italian starting 11 1986: Scirea, Cabrini, Tardelli, Platini 1990: Schillaci, De Agostini (also Marocchi and Tacconi, but I think they didn't play) 1994: R. Baggio, D.Baggio, Kohler, Reuter(?) 1998: Del Piero, Pessotto, Di Livio, Deschamps, Zidane, probably others 2002: Buffon, Iuliano, Zambrotta, Del Piero, Trezeguet, , probably others 2006: Buffon, Cannavaro, Zambrotta, Camoranesi, Del Piero, Zidane, Vieira, Trezeguet, and that's only in the final! D
From: Joachim Parsch on 9 Jun 2010 08:03
futbolmetrix schrieb: > > On Jun 9, 12:36 pm, milivella <milive... (a)gmail.com> wrote:> > Joachim Parsch: > > > > > But those 16 appearances are not a record. I think > > > Juventus, Inter and AC Milan have 17 appearances. > > > Next trivia question: which 2 WC were these clubs missing? > > > (the answer is not the same for all 3) > > > > Juventus = Italy, so the two missed by Italy should be the two missed > > by Juve: 1930 and 1958.... am I right? > > 1930 is almost surely right (but it probably wouldn't be if you also > count the player's club in the season following the WC: I think > Raimundo Orsi joined Juve in 1930). > > 1958 is wrong. John Charles played for Wales. > > The right answer is probably 1966, with an outside shot for 1954, 1970 > and even 1938. > > I'll have to check... Don't check... You've got me there, I missed the guy from Wales. And I missed also the Swedish guy playing with Inter. So Juve and Inter are the winners of this contest, with 18 participations each. For some reason known to me alone, I did not miss the Swedish guy playing for AC Milan in 58. Milan actually was missing in 30 and 38. So the new ranking now is: Number of WCs Number of players 1. Juve 18 ?? Inter 18 3. AC Milan 17 4. Botafogo 16 5. Flamengo 16 ?? Bayern 16 7. Sao Paulo 15.5 Joachim |