Dying rivalries
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From: Bruce D. Scott on 3 Jun 2010 19:39 Bob (Bob(a)Bob.com) wrote: : Bruce D. Scott wrote: : > Chagney Hunt (essetm(a)gmail.com) wrote: : > : >> I don't get it, though. France was never a threat to Italy in : >> football until the 90s. They met in 86, but even the most : >> impertinent Italian couldn't argue they that they didn't deserve to : >> lose. : Probably has to do with Italy not winning against France for over 20 years : (including each time the French won a major trophy) after they dominated : encounters for several decades. Italians may have had a sense of : entiltlement that was frustrated for a long while. : > : > In 84 though the French had occaision to be jealous. But judging from ^^^^^^^^^^ I meant Italy of course, arrgh. : > my colleagues the rivalry trancends football into sport in general : > (especially olympics) and politics of the EU sort. Most everyone is : > jealous at what France can get away with (eg, Rainbow Warrior). : I doubt many Italians even remember the Rainbow warrior. At any rate that's : peanuts compared to everything that is shared by Italy and France, good and : bad. OK. My generation probably knows about it, those who were paying attention in the 70s and 80s. France had brutal, ruthless security forces who could get away with anything. I can assure you had the USA done that everyone would remember. -- ciao, Bruce drift wave turbulence: http://www.rzg.mpg.de/~bds/
From: Bob on 3 Jun 2010 20:18 Bruce D. Scott wrote: > Bob (Bob(a)Bob.com) wrote: >> I doubt many Italians even remember the Rainbow warrior. At any rate >> that's peanuts compared to everything that is shared by Italy and >> France, good and bad. > > OK. My generation probably knows about it, those who were paying > attention in the 70s and 80s. France had brutal, ruthless security > forces who could get away with anything. I can assure you had the USA > done that everyone would remember. Not to diminish what happened but unfortunately both countries got (get) away with a lot worse. I was trying to say there are likely some much bigger apples of contention between some Italians and French, which is ludicrous considering how much they have in common.
From: Bruce D. Scott on 3 Jun 2010 22:16 Bob (Bob(a)Bob.com) wrote: : Not to diminish what happened but unfortunately both countries got (get) : away with a lot worse. I was trying to say there are likely some much bigger : apples of contention between some Italians and French, which is ludicrous : considering how much they have in common. From a USA perspective, even after 22 years in Germany, the thing which amazes me so much is the extent of the differences among the big countries. By our standards France, Italy, Spain, Germany, and England are utterly, utterly different. On the France/Italy rivalry from the Italian perspective of my colleagues, I didn't really know about it until the 2006 World Cup. Not least the extent to which people supported S Korea just in order to damage France. Colleagues were deriving and wishing for improbable scenarios (like Togo damaging France) to kick them out at the group stage. -- ciao, Bruce drift wave turbulence: http://www.rzg.mpg.de/~bds/
From: Chagney Hunt on 3 Jun 2010 23:51 On Jun 3, 1:09 pm, Jesper Lauridsen <rorsc...(a)sorrystofanet.dk> wrote: > On Wed, 2 Jun 2010 18:19:00 -0700 (PDT), Chagney Hunt <ess...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >Netherlands - Germany: a shadow of what it was from 88-92. Modern > >players are too PR-trained to mouth off vitriolic comments for the > >other side to misconstrue. > > "Ohne Holland fahren wir nach WM" was a popular chant in Germany in 2002. Also > some anti-NL banners at Germany matches in Japan. It's still on. > But do the Dutch still care? They seem perfectly okay with not-winning- anything-as-long-as-they-look-good-and-people-get-moist-watching-them role in the larger scheme of things (the part left unsaid is as-long- as-the-talentless-hacks-Germans-win-nothing, I suppose :-) )
From: Bruce D. Scott on 4 Jun 2010 00:15
Chagney Hunt (essetm(a)gmail.com) wrote: : On Jun 3, 1:09=A0pm, Jesper Lauridsen <rorsc...(a)sorrystofanet.dk> wrote: : > On Wed, 2 Jun 2010 18:19:00 -0700 (PDT), Chagney Hunt <ess...(a)gmail.com> = : wrote: : > >Netherlands - Germany: a shadow of what it was from 88-92. Modern : > >players are too PR-trained to mouth off vitriolic comments for the : > >other side to misconstrue. : > : > "Ohne Holland fahren wir nach WM" was a popular chant in Germany in 2002.= : Also : > some anti-NL banners at Germany matches in Japan. It's still on. : > : But do the Dutch still care? They seem perfectly okay with not-winning- : anything-as-long-as-they-look-good-and-people-get-moist-watching-them : role in the larger scheme of things (the part left unsaid is as-long- : as-the-talentless-hacks-Germans-win-nothing, I suppose :-) ) I guarantee you the '74 generation cares :-) -- ciao, Bruce drift wave turbulence: http://www.rzg.mpg.de/~bds/ |