Dying rivalries
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From: Bruce D. Scott on 3 Jun 2010 14:10 Chagney Hunt (essetm(a)gmail.com) wrote: : I don't get it, though. France was never a threat to Italy in football : until the 90s. They met in 86, but even the most impertinent Italian : couldn't argue they that they didn't deserve to lose. In 84 though the French had occaision to be jealous. But judging from my colleagues the rivalry trancends football into sport in general (especially olympics) and politics of the EU sort. Most everyone is jealous at what France can get away with (eg, Rainbow Warrior). : So it must be a historical rivalry -- like England - France, or France : - Germany (haven't met in a meaningful football match since '86) A bit less than these because more modern, but that's the idea. : > : Spain - Italy: I didn't even know this was a rivalry until Spain made : > : a big deal of beating Italy on pens. : > : > Very big since the 1994 Tassotti incident. =A0Maybe slightly less now. : I thought it was more Spanish self-pity than anything, not until Italy : returned the vitriol in kind it was a rivalry :-) Maybe it's just a one-sided one. You might remember the spaghetti posts from after the 1994 WC :-) It was very funny with not one but both went out the same way against S Korea. I have great fun maintaining that this was not a conspiracy (and I don't think it was) in front of these guys! -- ciao, Bruce drift wave turbulence: http://www.rzg.mpg.de/~bds/
From: Bruce D. Scott on 3 Jun 2010 14:15 Jesper Lauridsen (rorschak(a)sorrystofanet.dk) wrote: : On Wed, 2 Jun 2010 18:19:00 -0700 (PDT), Chagney Hunt <essetm(a)gmail.com> wrote: : >Netherlands - Germany: a shadow of what it was from 88-92. Modern : >players are too PR-trained to mouth off vitriolic comments for the : >other side to misconstrue. : "Ohne Holland fahren wir nach WM" was a popular chant in Germany in 2002. Also : some anti-NL banners at Germany matches in Japan. It's still on. It was very funny to hear them singing this circa 6pm to 6:30pm on 1 Sep 2001... didn't hear much of it after about 8:30 *ggg* : >England - Germany: clinically dead. England exorcised their German : >ghost with that 5-1 drubbing in Munich. Germany need to eliminate : >England on pens again just to warm this corpse up. : Germans never knew about this anyway. Maybe it's because you don't live in Germany. But the heat runs up anytime either England or Holland are met up with in a tournament. A friend says "Ich bin kein Nationalist aber gegen Holland oder England muss halt gewonnen werden" :-))) -- ciao, Bruce drift wave turbulence: http://www.rzg.mpg.de/~bds/
From: Karamako on 3 Jun 2010 14:23 Jesper Lauridsen a �crit : > On Thu, 3 Jun 2010 05:52:07 +0200, "Adama" <spam(a)invalid.com> wrote: > >> There is still good old France Germany. > > Is that a big deal in France? I don't think anymore. The big thing was the Schumacher incident in 1982, it was a long ago...
From: Adama on 3 Jun 2010 15:17 "Jesper Lauridsen" <rorschak(a)sorrystofanet.dk> a �crit dans le message de news: ieof065suah1uc8sf9aqjj2sm5vkrnn14i(a)4ax.com... > On Thu, 3 Jun 2010 05:52:07 +0200, "Adama" <spam(a)invalid.com> wrote: > >>There is still good old France Germany. > > Is that a big deal in France? Well, just ask a frenchman above 35 what he thinks about Sevilla 82. For about 15 years, Harald Schumacher was public enemy number one in France. Finally winning a WC (even without playing Germany) somehow reduced the bitterness of the french who were so disappointed to have possibly their best team ever (at the time) lose in such a fashion. I would say France biggest rivalry was with Germany during the 80es and 90es and is with Italy since EC00. Until then, Italy was a non factor in France footballwise. They were much better than us historically (we didn't beat them between in 20 games between 1920 and 1982) and it's hard to maintain a rivalry when it's so one-sided for so long, then, after the 82 win, we went undefeated for 3 games until WC98 but only once when it mattered. The rise of France in 98 and the EC00 final finally started the football rivalry with Italy and now, we have our hands too full with Italy (WC 06, Zidane-Materazzi, qualifications for EC08, EC08) to keep caring about the germans. Since we haven't played Germany in an official game since forever (WC86), the rivalry with the germans is slowly dying . (although I don't doubt the ghosts of Batiston and Schumacher would reappear if we were to play Germany in a big game) Anyway, it's kinda the same with Germany. It's Schumacher who started the rivalry. There was nothing before that (well, except the sequels of WW2) France used to be too weak to use football as a way to play out rivalries. (considering our rivals are Italy, Germany or England ... even though England was less consistent). In the end, we ended up playing Belgium all the time and even there, we have a negative record.
From: Bob on 3 Jun 2010 15:27
Bruce D. Scott wrote: > Chagney Hunt (essetm(a)gmail.com) wrote: > >> I don't get it, though. France was never a threat to Italy in >> football until the 90s. They met in 86, but even the most >> impertinent Italian couldn't argue they that they didn't deserve to >> lose. Probably has to do with Italy not winning against France for over 20 years (including each time the French won a major trophy) after they dominated encounters for several decades. Italians may have had a sense of entiltlement that was frustrated for a long while. > > In 84 though the French had occaision to be jealous. But judging from > my colleagues the rivalry trancends football into sport in general > (especially olympics) and politics of the EU sort. Most everyone is > jealous at what France can get away with (eg, Rainbow Warrior). I doubt many Italians even remember the Rainbow warrior. At any rate that's peanuts compared to everything that is shared by Italy and France, good and bad. |