Uruguay and cosmic justice
in [World Football]
|
From: Bob on 7 Jul 2010 00:06 Andres Martinez-Alegria wrote: > On Jul 6, 11:51 pm, "Bob" <B...(a)Bob.com> wrote: >> AndresMartinez-Alegria wrote: >>> On Jul 6, 11:34 pm, "Bob" <B...(a)Bob.com> wrote: >>>> AndresMartinez-Alegria wrote: >>>>> On Jul 6, 6:17 pm, MH <MHnos...(a)ucalgary.ca> wrote: >>>>>> Bob wrote: >>>>>>> MH wrote: >>>>>>>> Bob wrote: >>>>>>>>> MH wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Bob wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> AndresMartinez-Alegria wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 4, 10:16 pm, b...(a)ipp-garching.mpg.de (Bruce D. >>>>>>>>>>>> Scott) wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> I just saw the repeat broadcast of the match Uruguay vs >>>>>>>>>>>>> Ghana. In that critical half-minute at the end, one of the >>>>>>>>>>>>> worst dives of the whole tournament, worse than the one >>>>>>>>>>>>> Holland got a yellow card for, set up the free kick at >>>>>>>>>>>>> about 119'30 So it went in and you all know what happened. >>>>>>>>>>>>> The point is... had this play resulted in a goal it would >>>>>>>>>>>>> have been a massive ripoff against Uruguay. The free kick >>>>>>>>>>>>> was not at all justified. (Kudos to Benny for pointing >>>>>>>>>>>>> this out... I doubt a lot of people saw it in real time... >>>>>>>>>>>>> knowing when to look, it was quite obvious though. On the >>>>>>>>>>>>> field it should have been obvious.) >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Of course all the lily white moralists ("correct" if you >>>>>>>>>>>>> agree with them but you're morally inferior if you do not) >>>>>>>>>>>>> have still never mentioned this part of the play. So >>>>>>>>>>>>> cheating is cheating, so why are they not up in arms at >>>>>>>>>>>>> the potentially crucial ripoff of Uruguay? Doesn't fit >>>>>>>>>>>>> their Manichean picture I suppose. Ghana are the darlings >>>>>>>>>>>>> and Uruguay, despite their very clean tournament, are >>>>>>>>>>>>> consigned to be the bad guys. Partly due to history, >>>>>>>>>>>>> partly just because they are South American... >>>>>>>>>>>>> I guess that's the way it is with some of these people, >>>>>>>>>>>>> all of whom come from northern countries. >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> So as we know the penalty was missed and Cosmic Justice >>>>>>>>>>>>> was served. Ghana did not get a free goal at the end and >>>>>>>>>>>>> the teams went to penalties fair and square. Uruguay came >>>>>>>>>>>>> up the better team but it could have been otherwise. But >>>>>>>>>>>>> the game was decided in the penalties fair and square and >>>>>>>>>>>>> not as the result of a terrible error by the referee. As >>>>>>>>>>>>> it happens, the result of that referee error is that they >>>>>>>>>>>>> are missingSuarezin the semifinals. >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> So it was also for the US... fortunately the players >>>>>>>>>>>>> overcame whatever situation they were in, and whether you >>>>>>>>>>>>> agree with the calls or not, in the end they had no effect >>>>>>>>>>>>> on the overall result (we won our group). That's how it >>>>>>>>>>>>> should be. >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Uruguay deserve their place in the last four. >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>> ciao, >>>>>>>>>>>>> Bruce >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> drift wave turbulence:http://www.rzg.mpg.de/~bds/ >>>>>>>>>>>> Bruce, >> >>>>>>>>>>>> THANK YOU! I was beginning to think I was the only one who >>>>>>>>>>>> had seen this! I had actually noticed it when it happened, >>>>>>>>>>>> and have watched it over and over to verify. It is a >>>>>>>>>>>> horrible dive (something Ghana has been developing a >>>>>>>>>>>> reputation for in the World Cup, >>>>>>>>>>> BS. >> >>>>>>>>>>> which has taken >>>>>>>>>>>> them, in my list of teams to root for, from up high with >>>>>>>>>>>> the "little guys who deserve a chance" like South Korea or >>>>>>>>>>>> Slovakia, down to "dirty, disgraceful players" like Italy >>>>>>>>>>>> or Portugal). And Bob, since when do you need replay to >>>>>>>>>>>> make video footage worthwhile? >>>>>>>>>>> always when the original footage is from too far to see >>>>>>>>>>> someone tripping someone else >> >>>>>>>>>>> Watching it >>>>>>>>>>>> real-time it is pretty obvious, Fucile was a good 2 yards >>>>>>>>>>>> away lie AND backing off >>>>>>>>>>> blatant lie >> >>>>>>>>>>> when Dominic Adiyiah fell. The free kick should have never >>>>>>>>>>>> been granted, but it was, andSuarezshouldn't have handled >>>>>>>>>>>> the ball, but he did. The difference is, Ghana didn't get >>>>>>>>>>>> penalized for its dive, Uruguay got penalized for its >>>>>>>>>>>> handball, but Ghana just couldn't convert! Anyways, if you >>>>>>>>>>>> go to espn3.com to rewatch it, drag the bar to the 2:59:40 >>>>>>>>>>>> mark of the telecast (about the 119:30 mark of the game) >>>>>>>>>>>> and see for yourself. >>>>>>>>>>> and, one more to be added to the pathetic liar/delusional >>>>>>>>>>> poster column. >> >>>>>>>>>> Hold on Bob. You can't conclude, based on the limited video >>>>>>>>>> evidence, >>>>>>>>> Nobody can conclude anything and especially not that it was a >>>>>>>>> dive since the assistant ref less than 10 yards away called >>>>>>>>> the foul. >> >>>>>>>>>> that this was not a dive. All you can say is that in real >>>>>>>>>> time, and from that angle, there is no obvious foul. There >>>>>>>>>> may have been a slight shove in the back that was >>>>>>>>>> embelished, and the ref may have seen this and been correct >>>>>>>>>> in his call (his angle was completely different). We don't >>>>>>>>>> know. But you can't say for sure that this was not a dive. >>>>>>>>> Wait a minute. I never said this wasn't a dive. I merely said >>>>>>>>> there was no evidence whatsoever that it was a dive. >>>>>>>> I would disagree. I think the limited evidence available, i.e. >>>>>>>> the real time video, suggests it was a dive. >> >>>>>>> Wow! if there were anyhting that suggested it was a dive you'd >>>>>>> say what it is (why don't you?) >> >>>>>> I think it was a dive. There, I have said it. >>>>>> I saw no evidence of any foul by Fucile, and the Ghanaian threw >>>>>> himself to the ground theatrically. (As did their defender Vorsah >>>>>> earlier in the match in a yacking match withSuarez) >> >>>>>> I admit the possibility that I was wrong and the ref saw a real >>>>>> foul, but I don't see any foul on the footage available. The >>>>>> suppression of any replays is suspicious too. >> >>>>>> but you don't because there absolutely no evidence that >> >>>>>>> suggest it was a dive beside the defensive player protesting >>>>>>> with the ref. >> >>>>>>> It is not at all >>>>>>>> conclusive, but there is also no conclusive evidence it was a >>>>>>>> foul. In the absence of such evidence, the referee should not >>>>>>>> have blown for a foul. >> >>>>>>>> What we don't know is what the referee saw or thought he saw. >> >>>>>>> precisely, yet here you are arguing it was probably a dive. go >>>>>>> figure. >> >>>>>>> And it >>>>>>>> is certainly possible that the ref was right. >> >>>>>>> More like there is no evidence that he was wrong. >> >>>>>>>> I must say that I do find it strange >>>>>>>>> that you address these comments to me when Bruce has been >>>>>>>>> posting all over this forum that this was a dive without >>>>>>>>> providing any evidence and despite admitting there was no >>>>>>>>> replay and/or close up images. >>>>>>>> Surely the default setting is "no foul" ? >> >>>>>>> Not when the ref called one and there is no evidence showing the >>>>>>> ref was wrong. Unless you think you can see better from your >>>>>>> couch. I can't believe you are saying this. >> >>>>>> All I am saying is we the viewers saw no foul, and refs do make >>>>>> mistakes. >> >>>>>>>> Sometimes, I really >>>>>>>>> feel like reality is upside down in this newsgroup. >> >>>>>>>>>> And what about Appiah being offside? >>>>>>>>> He may be in an offside position at the time the free-kick is >>>>>>>>> taken but there is no images that show it for sure. >> >>>>> Be careful, MH, Bob will add you to his list of delusional blatant >>>>> liars... >> >>>> MH didn't claim that Fucile was more than 2 yards away or that he >>>> was backing off like you did. Red card to you, liar. >> >>> Ummm... he WAS about 2 yards away, and clearly had taken about 2 >>> steps backing away to give himself more space to maneuver should >>> the Ghana player try to run inside... a common move for most >>> defenders. And I can see the dive because it is clear as day! I >>> don't need to have a replay from right up next to the guy to be >>> able to see that! Cry and whine all you want, but it looks very >>> much like a dive and like no foul committed. Run it in slow motion >>> and there is not even any contact before, during, or after the >>> play. Dive. You still haven't been able to show where exactly the >>> foul occurred... hand to the back? toe to the back of the foot? >>> Where was it? I am sure we are all waiting. >> >> why do we need refs when we could have you making the calls from >> your living room. You appear to know better than the guy who was >> making the call 10 yards away even though you didn't see a close up >> replay. > > But sorry, Bob, I suppose I am just supposed to say, you are right, > because the ref was closer, he MUST be right. I'm sure Kaka would say > the same thing, or Maurice Edu, or Frank Lampard, or the entire > Mexican national team... The Ref is closer, he must be right than any > of us who saw the plays... and I know what you will say, we saw it on > replay... well many of us knew the ref was wrong BEFORE the replay > confirmed it... Dude, unless you have reason to believe the ref is on the take and in the absence of adequate video footage, there is no reason to assume that he isn't more right than you are likely to be from your couch. If you had presented evidence of recurrent diving behavior by the same attacker you may have caused a pause but you haven't even done that. In other words you have nothing but your speculations.
From: Andres Martinez-Alegria on 7 Jul 2010 00:15 On Jul 7, 12:06 am, "Bob" <B...(a)Bob.com> wrote: > AndresMartinez-Alegria wrote: > > On Jul 6, 11:51 pm, "Bob" <B...(a)Bob.com> wrote: > >> AndresMartinez-Alegria wrote: > >>> On Jul 6, 11:34 pm, "Bob" <B...(a)Bob.com> wrote: > >>>> AndresMartinez-Alegria wrote: > >>>>> On Jul 6, 6:17 pm, MH <MHnos...(a)ucalgary.ca> wrote: > >>>>>> Bob wrote: > >>>>>>> MH wrote: > >>>>>>>> Bob wrote: > >>>>>>>>> MH wrote: > >>>>>>>>>> Bob wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>> AndresMartinez-Alegria wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 4, 10:16 pm, b...(a)ipp-garching.mpg.de (Bruce D. > >>>>>>>>>>>> Scott) wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>> I just saw the repeat broadcast of the match Uruguay vs > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Ghana. In that critical half-minute at the end, one of the > >>>>>>>>>>>>> worst dives of the whole tournament, worse than the one > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Holland got a yellow card for, set up the free kick at > >>>>>>>>>>>>> about 119'30 So it went in and you all know what happened. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> The point is... had this play resulted in a goal it would > >>>>>>>>>>>>> have been a massive ripoff against Uruguay. The free kick > >>>>>>>>>>>>> was not at all justified. (Kudos to Benny for pointing > >>>>>>>>>>>>> this out... I doubt a lot of people saw it in real time... > >>>>>>>>>>>>> knowing when to look, it was quite obvious though. On the > >>>>>>>>>>>>> field it should have been obvious.) > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Of course all the lily white moralists ("correct" if you > >>>>>>>>>>>>> agree with them but you're morally inferior if you do not) > >>>>>>>>>>>>> have still never mentioned this part of the play. So > >>>>>>>>>>>>> cheating is cheating, so why are they not up in arms at > >>>>>>>>>>>>> the potentially crucial ripoff of Uruguay? Doesn't fit > >>>>>>>>>>>>> their Manichean picture I suppose. Ghana are the darlings > >>>>>>>>>>>>> and Uruguay, despite their very clean tournament, are > >>>>>>>>>>>>> consigned to be the bad guys. Partly due to history, > >>>>>>>>>>>>> partly just because they are South American... > >>>>>>>>>>>>> I guess that's the way it is with some of these people, > >>>>>>>>>>>>> all of whom come from northern countries. > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> So as we know the penalty was missed and Cosmic Justice > >>>>>>>>>>>>> was served. Ghana did not get a free goal at the end and > >>>>>>>>>>>>> the teams went to penalties fair and square. Uruguay came > >>>>>>>>>>>>> up the better team but it could have been otherwise. But > >>>>>>>>>>>>> the game was decided in the penalties fair and square and > >>>>>>>>>>>>> not as the result of a terrible error by the referee. As > >>>>>>>>>>>>> it happens, the result of that referee error is that they > >>>>>>>>>>>>> are missingSuarezin the semifinals. > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> So it was also for the US... fortunately the players > >>>>>>>>>>>>> overcame whatever situation they were in, and whether you > >>>>>>>>>>>>> agree with the calls or not, in the end they had no effect > >>>>>>>>>>>>> on the overall result (we won our group). That's how it > >>>>>>>>>>>>> should be. > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Uruguay deserve their place in the last four. > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>>>>>>>> ciao, > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Bruce > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> drift wave turbulence:http://www.rzg.mpg.de/~bds/ > >>>>>>>>>>>> Bruce, > > >>>>>>>>>>>> THANK YOU! I was beginning to think I was the only one who > >>>>>>>>>>>> had seen this! I had actually noticed it when it happened, > >>>>>>>>>>>> and have watched it over and over to verify. It is a > >>>>>>>>>>>> horrible dive (something Ghana has been developing a > >>>>>>>>>>>> reputation for in the World Cup, > >>>>>>>>>>> BS. > > >>>>>>>>>>> which has taken > >>>>>>>>>>>> them, in my list of teams to root for, from up high with > >>>>>>>>>>>> the "little guys who deserve a chance" like South Korea or > >>>>>>>>>>>> Slovakia, down to "dirty, disgraceful players" like Italy > >>>>>>>>>>>> or Portugal). And Bob, since when do you need replay to > >>>>>>>>>>>> make video footage worthwhile? > >>>>>>>>>>> always when the original footage is from too far to see > >>>>>>>>>>> someone tripping someone else > > >>>>>>>>>>> Watching it > >>>>>>>>>>>> real-time it is pretty obvious, Fucile was a good 2 yards > >>>>>>>>>>>> away lie AND backing off > >>>>>>>>>>> blatant lie > > >>>>>>>>>>> when Dominic Adiyiah fell. The free kick should have never > >>>>>>>>>>>> been granted, but it was, andSuarezshouldn't have handled > >>>>>>>>>>>> the ball, but he did. The difference is, Ghana didn't get > >>>>>>>>>>>> penalized for its dive, Uruguay got penalized for its > >>>>>>>>>>>> handball, but Ghana just couldn't convert! Anyways, if you > >>>>>>>>>>>> go to espn3.com to rewatch it, drag the bar to the 2:59:40 > >>>>>>>>>>>> mark of the telecast (about the 119:30 mark of the game) > >>>>>>>>>>>> and see for yourself. > >>>>>>>>>>> and, one more to be added to the pathetic liar/delusional > >>>>>>>>>>> poster column. > > >>>>>>>>>> Hold on Bob. You can't conclude, based on the limited video > >>>>>>>>>> evidence, > >>>>>>>>> Nobody can conclude anything and especially not that it was a > >>>>>>>>> dive since the assistant ref less than 10 yards away called > >>>>>>>>> the foul. > > >>>>>>>>>> that this was not a dive. All you can say is that in real > >>>>>>>>>> time, and from that angle, there is no obvious foul. There > >>>>>>>>>> may have been a slight shove in the back that was > >>>>>>>>>> embelished, and the ref may have seen this and been correct > >>>>>>>>>> in his call (his angle was completely different). We don't > >>>>>>>>>> know. But you can't say for sure that this was not a dive. > >>>>>>>>> Wait a minute. I never said this wasn't a dive. I merely said > >>>>>>>>> there was no evidence whatsoever that it was a dive. > >>>>>>>> I would disagree. I think the limited evidence available, i.e. > >>>>>>>> the real time video, suggests it was a dive. > > >>>>>>> Wow! if there were anyhting that suggested it was a dive you'd > >>>>>>> say what it is (why don't you?) > > >>>>>> I think it was a dive. There, I have said it. > >>>>>> I saw no evidence of any foul by Fucile, and the Ghanaian threw > >>>>>> himself to the ground theatrically. (As did their defender Vorsah > >>>>>> earlier in the match in a yacking match withSuarez) > > >>>>>> I admit the possibility that I was wrong and the ref saw a real > >>>>>> foul, but I don't see any foul on the footage available. The > >>>>>> suppression of any replays is suspicious too. > > >>>>>> but you don't because there absolutely no evidence that > > >>>>>>> suggest it was a dive beside the defensive player protesting > >>>>>>> with the ref. > > >>>>>>> It is not at all > >>>>>>>> conclusive, but there is also no conclusive evidence it was a > >>>>>>>> foul. In the absence of such evidence, the referee should not > >>>>>>>> have blown for a foul. > > >>>>>>>> What we don't know is what the referee saw or thought he saw. > > >>>>>>> precisely, yet here you are arguing it was probably a dive. go > >>>>>>> figure. > > >>>>>>> And it > >>>>>>>> is certainly possible that the ref was right. > > >>>>>>> More like there is no evidence that he was wrong. > > >>>>>>>> I must say that I do find it strange > >>>>>>>>> that you address these comments to me when Bruce has been > >>>>>>>>> posting all over this forum that this was a dive without > >>>>>>>>> providing any evidence and despite admitting there was no > >>>>>>>>> replay and/or close up images. > >>>>>>>> Surely the default setting is "no foul" ? > > >>>>>>> Not when the ref called one and there is no evidence showing the > >>>>>>> ref was wrong. Unless you think you can see better from your > >>>>>>> couch. I can't believe you are saying this. > > >>>>>> All I am saying is we the viewers saw no foul, and refs do make > >>>>>> mistakes. > > >>>>>>>> Sometimes, I really > >>>>>>>>> feel like reality is upside down in this newsgroup. > > >>>>>>>>>> And what about Appiah being offside? > >>>>>>>>> He may be in an offside position at the time the free-kick is > >>>>>>>>> taken but there is no images that show it for sure. > > >>>>> Be careful, MH, Bob will add you to his list of delusional blatant > >>>>> liars... > > >>>> MH didn't claim that Fucile was more than 2 yards away or that he > >>>> was backing off like you did. Red card to you, liar. > > >>> Ummm... he WAS about 2 yards away, and clearly had taken about 2 > >>> steps backing away to give himself more space to maneuver should > >>> the Ghana player try to run inside... a common move for most > >>> defenders. And I can see the dive because it is clear as day! I > >>> don't need to have a replay from right up next to the guy to be > >>> able to see that! Cry and whine all you want, but it looks very > >>> much like a dive and like no foul committed. Run it in slow motion > >>> and there is not even any contact before, during, or after the > >>> play. Dive. You still haven't been able to show where exactly the > >>> foul occurred... hand to the back? toe to the back of the foot? > >>> Where was it? I am sure we are all waiting. > > >> why do we need refs when we could have you making the calls from > >> your living room. You appear to know better than the guy who was > >> making the call 10 yards away even though you didn't see a close up > >> replay. > > > But sorry, Bob, I suppose I am just supposed to say, you are right, > > because the ref was closer, he MUST be right. I'm sure Kaka would say > > the same thing, or Maurice Edu, or Frank Lampard, or the entire > > Mexican national team... The Ref is closer, he must be right than any > > of us who saw the plays... and I know what you will say, we saw it on > > replay... well many of us knew the ref was wrong BEFORE the replay > > confirmed it... > > Dude, unless you have reason to believe the ref is on the take and in the > absence of adequate video footage, there is no reason to assume that he > isn't more right than you are likely to be from your couch. If you had > presented evidence of recurrent diving behavior by the same attacker you may > have caused a pause but you haven't even done that. In other words you have > nothing but your speculations. Oh, I get it now. People only dive ALL the time, not just now and then when it's convenient... Right... well, how about the fact, as shown by your lovable replay, that Ghana HAS dived throughout the tournament. Look at Inkoom falling versus the US, I think in the 110th minute or so? Completely untouched, even gets up at first, then all of the sudden can't move? But, no, not the same player, so obviously I am wrong. By the way, seeing as I have repeatedly seen the video, I believe it is fair to say that I have nothing but my "observations".
From: Bob on 7 Jul 2010 00:32 Andres Martinez-Alegria wrote: > On Jul 7, 12:06 am, "Bob" <B...(a)Bob.com> wrote: >> AndresMartinez-Alegria wrote: >>> On Jul 6, 11:51 pm, "Bob" <B...(a)Bob.com> wrote: >>>> AndresMartinez-Alegria wrote: >>>>> On Jul 6, 11:34 pm, "Bob" <B...(a)Bob.com> wrote: >>>>>> AndresMartinez-Alegria wrote: >>>>>>> On Jul 6, 6:17 pm, MH <MHnos...(a)ucalgary.ca> wrote: >>>>>>>> Bob wrote: >>>>>>>>> MH wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Bob wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> MH wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> Bob wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> AndresMartinez-Alegria wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 4, 10:16 pm, b...(a)ipp-garching.mpg.de (Bruce D. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Scott) wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I just saw the repeat broadcast of the match Uruguay vs >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ghana. In that critical half-minute at the end, one of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the worst dives of the whole tournament, worse than the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one Holland got a yellow card for, set up the free kick >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at about 119'30 So it went in and you all know what >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happened. The point is... had this play resulted in a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> goal it would have been a massive ripoff against >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Uruguay. The free kick was not at all justified. (Kudos >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to Benny for pointing this out... I doubt a lot of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people saw it in real time... knowing when to look, it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was quite obvious though. On the field it should have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> been obvious.) >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of course all the lily white moralists ("correct" if you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> agree with them but you're morally inferior if you do >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not) have still never mentioned this part of the play. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So cheating is cheating, so why are they not up in arms >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at the potentially crucial ripoff of Uruguay? Doesn't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fit their Manichean picture I suppose. Ghana are the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> darlings and Uruguay, despite their very clean >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tournament, are consigned to be the bad guys. Partly >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> due to history, partly just because they are South >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> American... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I guess that's the way it is with some of these people, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all of whom come from northern countries. >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So as we know the penalty was missed and Cosmic Justice >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was served. Ghana did not get a free goal at the end and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the teams went to penalties fair and square. Uruguay >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> came up the better team but it could have been >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> otherwise. But the game was decided in the penalties >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fair and square and not as the result of a terrible >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> error by the referee. As it happens, the result of that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> referee error is that they are missingSuarezin the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> semifinals. >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So it was also for the US... fortunately the players >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> overcame whatever situation they were in, and whether >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you agree with the calls or not, in the end they had no >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> effect on the overall result (we won our group). That's >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> how it should be. >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Uruguay deserve their place in the last four. >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ciao, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bruce >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> drift wave turbulence:http://www.rzg.mpg.de/~bds/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bruce, >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> THANK YOU! I was beginning to think I was the only one >>>>>>>>>>>>>> who had seen this! I had actually noticed it when it >>>>>>>>>>>>>> happened, and have watched it over and over to verify. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is a horrible dive (something Ghana has been >>>>>>>>>>>>>> developing a reputation for in the World Cup, >>>>>>>>>>>>> BS. >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> which has taken >>>>>>>>>>>>>> them, in my list of teams to root for, from up high with >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the "little guys who deserve a chance" like South Korea >>>>>>>>>>>>>> or Slovakia, down to "dirty, disgraceful players" like >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Italy or Portugal). And Bob, since when do you need >>>>>>>>>>>>>> replay to make video footage worthwhile? >>>>>>>>>>>>> always when the original footage is from too far to see >>>>>>>>>>>>> someone tripping someone else >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Watching it >>>>>>>>>>>>>> real-time it is pretty obvious, Fucile was a good 2 yards >>>>>>>>>>>>>> away lie AND backing off >>>>>>>>>>>>> blatant lie >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> when Dominic Adiyiah fell. The free kick should have never >>>>>>>>>>>>>> been granted, but it was, andSuarezshouldn't have handled >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the ball, but he did. The difference is, Ghana didn't get >>>>>>>>>>>>>> penalized for its dive, Uruguay got penalized for its >>>>>>>>>>>>>> handball, but Ghana just couldn't convert! Anyways, if >>>>>>>>>>>>>> you go to espn3.com to rewatch it, drag the bar to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2:59:40 mark of the telecast (about the 119:30 mark of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the game) and see for yourself. >>>>>>>>>>>>> and, one more to be added to the pathetic liar/delusional >>>>>>>>>>>>> poster column. >> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hold on Bob. You can't conclude, based on the limited video >>>>>>>>>>>> evidence, >>>>>>>>>>> Nobody can conclude anything and especially not that it was >>>>>>>>>>> a dive since the assistant ref less than 10 yards away >>>>>>>>>>> called the foul. >> >>>>>>>>>>>> that this was not a dive. All you can say is that in real >>>>>>>>>>>> time, and from that angle, there is no obvious foul. There >>>>>>>>>>>> may have been a slight shove in the back that was >>>>>>>>>>>> embelished, and the ref may have seen this and been correct >>>>>>>>>>>> in his call (his angle was completely different). We don't >>>>>>>>>>>> know. But you can't say for sure that this was not a dive. >>>>>>>>>>> Wait a minute. I never said this wasn't a dive. I merely >>>>>>>>>>> said there was no evidence whatsoever that it was a dive. >>>>>>>>>> I would disagree. I think the limited evidence available, >>>>>>>>>> i.e. the real time video, suggests it was a dive. >> >>>>>>>>> Wow! if there were anyhting that suggested it was a dive you'd >>>>>>>>> say what it is (why don't you?) >> >>>>>>>> I think it was a dive. There, I have said it. >>>>>>>> I saw no evidence of any foul by Fucile, and the Ghanaian threw >>>>>>>> himself to the ground theatrically. (As did their defender >>>>>>>> Vorsah earlier in the match in a yacking match withSuarez) >> >>>>>>>> I admit the possibility that I was wrong and the ref saw a real >>>>>>>> foul, but I don't see any foul on the footage available. The >>>>>>>> suppression of any replays is suspicious too. >> >>>>>>>> but you don't because there absolutely no evidence that >> >>>>>>>>> suggest it was a dive beside the defensive player protesting >>>>>>>>> with the ref. >> >>>>>>>>> It is not at all >>>>>>>>>> conclusive, but there is also no conclusive evidence it was a >>>>>>>>>> foul. In the absence of such evidence, the referee should not >>>>>>>>>> have blown for a foul. >> >>>>>>>>>> What we don't know is what the referee saw or thought he saw. >> >>>>>>>>> precisely, yet here you are arguing it was probably a dive. go >>>>>>>>> figure. >> >>>>>>>>> And it >>>>>>>>>> is certainly possible that the ref was right. >> >>>>>>>>> More like there is no evidence that he was wrong. >> >>>>>>>>>> I must say that I do find it strange >>>>>>>>>>> that you address these comments to me when Bruce has been >>>>>>>>>>> posting all over this forum that this was a dive without >>>>>>>>>>> providing any evidence and despite admitting there was no >>>>>>>>>>> replay and/or close up images. >>>>>>>>>> Surely the default setting is "no foul" ? >> >>>>>>>>> Not when the ref called one and there is no evidence showing >>>>>>>>> the ref was wrong. Unless you think you can see better from >>>>>>>>> your couch. I can't believe you are saying this. >> >>>>>>>> All I am saying is we the viewers saw no foul, and refs do make >>>>>>>> mistakes. >> >>>>>>>>>> Sometimes, I really >>>>>>>>>>> feel like reality is upside down in this newsgroup. >> >>>>>>>>>>>> And what about Appiah being offside? >>>>>>>>>>> He may be in an offside position at the time the free-kick >>>>>>>>>>> is taken but there is no images that show it for sure. >> >>>>>>> Be careful, MH, Bob will add you to his list of delusional >>>>>>> blatant liars... >> >>>>>> MH didn't claim that Fucile was more than 2 yards away or that he >>>>>> was backing off like you did. Red card to you, liar. >> >>>>> Ummm... he WAS about 2 yards away, and clearly had taken about 2 >>>>> steps backing away to give himself more space to maneuver should >>>>> the Ghana player try to run inside... a common move for most >>>>> defenders. And I can see the dive because it is clear as day! I >>>>> don't need to have a replay from right up next to the guy to be >>>>> able to see that! Cry and whine all you want, but it looks very >>>>> much like a dive and like no foul committed. Run it in slow motion >>>>> and there is not even any contact before, during, or after the >>>>> play. Dive. You still haven't been able to show where exactly the >>>>> foul occurred... hand to the back? toe to the back of the foot? >>>>> Where was it? I am sure we are all waiting. >> >>>> why do we need refs when we could have you making the calls from >>>> your living room. You appear to know better than the guy who was >>>> making the call 10 yards away even though you didn't see a close up >>>> replay. >> >>> But sorry, Bob, I suppose I am just supposed to say, you are right, >>> because the ref was closer, he MUST be right. I'm sure Kaka would >>> say the same thing, or Maurice Edu, or Frank Lampard, or the entire >>> Mexican national team... The Ref is closer, he must be right than >>> any of us who saw the plays... and I know what you will say, we saw >>> it on replay... well many of us knew the ref was wrong BEFORE the >>> replay confirmed it... >> >> Dude, unless you have reason to believe the ref is on the take and >> in the absence of adequate video footage, there is no reason to >> assume that he isn't more right than you are likely to be from your >> couch. If you had presented evidence of recurrent diving behavior by >> the same attacker you may have caused a pause but you haven't even >> done that. In other words you have nothing but your speculations. > > Oh, I get it now. People only dive ALL the time, not just now and then > when it's convenient... Right... well, how about the fact, as shown by > your lovable replay, that Ghana HAS dived throughout the tournament. Some Ghana players have likely dived in prior matches but it is isn't evidence that a particular player has a significant history of diving during this match or before. The defender was coming up on him from hte back and he fell abruptly even before contact appeared to be made, whereas a diver would have likely slowed down to make body contact. We are all in the dark here and we have to go for what is most likely. > Look at Inkoom falling versus the US, I think in the 110th minute or > so? Completely untouched, even gets up at first, then all of the > sudden can't move? But, no, not the same player, so obviously I am > wrong. By the way, seeing as I have repeatedly seen the video, I > believe it is fair to say that I have nothing but my "observations". your observations from the stands compared to that of a guy 10 yards away.
From: Futbolmetrix on 7 Jul 2010 08:47 "Bob" <Bob(a)Bob.com> wrote in message news:89ie3hFtsU1(a)mid.individual.net... > Some Ghana players have likely dived in prior matches but it is isn't > evidence that a particular player has a significant history of diving > during > this match or before. Poor Dominic Adiyah is not even 21 and has played probably less than 20 professional matches in his whole career, so we don't really have much of a history to go by... D PS: you guys should learn to edit your posts. No, really. It's almost as bad as crossposting or posting scores in headers.
From: Andres Martinez-Alegria on 7 Jul 2010 12:04
here's your replay... even zoomed! Yes, my observations from my couch is sometimes better than those of a man 10 m away. The referees have shown to make egregious mistakes throughout the Cup, so please don't tell me that just because they are physically closer, they are right. |