Welcome back, Copa Roca
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From: Lleo on 5 Aug 2010 20:20 http://globoesporte.globo.com/futebol/selecao-brasileira/noticia/2010/07/cbf-e-afa-assinam-acordo-para-reedicao-da-copa-roca.html Due to an agreement between CBF and AFA, Brasil and Argentina will meet at least twice per year from 2011 onwards. The two FA's agreed to ressurrect the old Copa Roca, a friendly cup between these two teams, held irregularly between 1914 and 1976. Both will have squads composed only by domestically based players, and the new tournament will be contested in a home-and-away basis. It is a very nice idea, in my opinion. Both national teams, nowadays, are heavily foreign-based, with only a handful of squad players coming from the domestic league. It will provide a space for the domestic based players to appear, thus giving more options to both sides' managers. And it will do so in a stage where you can't, honestly, really say "we don't care" - after all, it's the old rival on the other side. Plus, with Brasil in process of renewing the squad, this couldn't have been a more welcome return IMO. I figure this also holds true for Argentina. Copa Roca was one of the numerous bilateral tournaments between South American countries you'd usually see until the 70's/80's. It was held eleven times, with seven wins for Brasil, three for Argentina and one shared cup. It was created by Argentinian Lt.General Julio Roca in 1913, namely to "serve as motivation to our countries' youth, who cultivate this most noble sport", and provided the stage for not only the early chapters of this rivalry, but some of the most bitter ones as well. It was first held in 1914, and it indeed looked like a cup as friendly as it could be. The Brasilian team was very welcomed in Buenos Aires, and although they comfortably lost a pre-cup friendly 3-0, in the official game itself (the first of these between Brasil and Argentina) they went a goal up. The Argentinians drew level with an irregular goal, which the referee - who was from Brasil! - didn't notice and validated. The fans didn't celebrate and the Argentinian captain, then, approached the ref, told him that the goal was illegal and his team wouldn't accept it. In the end, Brasil won and the celebrations also involved the Argentinian crowd. Can you possibly imagine such a scene today? Well, you couldn't possibly imagine it by the late 30's already. Argentina already had the upper hand in the head-to-head encounters, and had a formidable team. The games were becoming bitter battles, with the Brasilians getting beaten up in Buenos Aires and the Argentinians in Rio de Janeiro. The "macaquitos" slur appeared. After a few of such encounters, which involved broken legs, teams abandoning the pitch or at least trying to, a penalty taken after the opposing team abandoned the pitch and both sides's largest victory over the other (Argentina 6-1, Brasil 6-2), tensions finally reached their peak in a South American Championship game in 1946. Both sides wouldn't play each other for ten years, with Argentina refusing to take part of the SA C'ship 1949 and World Cup 1950 because they were going to be held in Brasil (and neither would Brasil attend the SA Championships held in Argentina in this period). Copa Roca would resume in 1957, with a certain 16-year old kid nicknamed "Pelé" making his debut for Brasil at the Maracanã. He scored a goal, but Brasil would go on to lose 1-2 to the old rival. Since then, Brasil went on to dominate this fixture (which was 3-3 until then), with Argentina's only victory coming via a shared title in 1971. In its last edition, it wasn't even held "on its own"; there was this other cup, the "Copa del Atlântico" involving Brasil, Argentina, Uruguay and Paraguay, and Copa Roca was simply awarded to the winner of the Brasil vs Argentina head-to-head in this tournament (other bilateral minor cups that year also used this tournament's result - must have been fun). And now it returns. Cold hard logic says it is merely a glorified friendly. But at least it is one with some history as background, and that shall serve an immediate purpose from now on. CBF and AFA already signed terms on paper, here's hoping it will indeed come off next year. -- Lléo
From: Clément on 6 Aug 2010 08:09 "Lleo" escreveu: > > Due to an agreement between CBF and AFA, Brasil and Argentina will > meet at least twice per year from 2011 onwards. The two FA's agreed to > ressurrect the old Copa Roca, a friendly cup between these two teams, > held irregularly between 1914 and 1976. Both will have squads composed > only by domestically based players, and the new tournament will be > contested in a home-and-away basis. Sounds fun, to say the very least. (...) > And now it returns. Cold hard logic says it is merely a glorified > friendly. But at least it is one with some history as background, and > that shall serve an immediate purpose from now on. CBF and AFA already > signed terms on paper, here's hoping it will indeed come off next > year. Well, it is a glorified friendly. I just don't see anything wrong about that. =) And, as you say, there's the tradition. These things are charming and appealing to the fans. If anything, there should be more of those. And thanks for the nice Copa Roca history info! Abra�o, Luiz Mello
From: Lleo on 7 Aug 2010 17:08 On 6 ago, 09:09, Clément <lcmello.lis...(a)terra.com.br> wrote: > "Lleo" escreveu: > > > > > Due to an agreement between CBF and AFA, Brasil and Argentina will > > meet at least twice per year from 2011 onwards. The two FA's agreed to > > ressurrect the old Copa Roca, a friendly cup between these two teams, > > held irregularly between 1914 and 1976. Both will have squads composed > > only by domestically based players, and the new tournament will be > > contested in a home-and-away basis. > > Sounds fun, to say the very least. > > (...) > > > And now it returns. Cold hard logic says it is merely a glorified > > friendly. But at least it is one with some history as background, and > > that shall serve an immediate purpose from now on. CBF and AFA already > > signed terms on paper, here's hoping it will indeed come off next > > year. > > Well, it is a glorified friendly. I just don't see anything wrong about > that. =) > > And, as you say, there's the tradition. These things are charming and > appealing to the fans. If anything, there should be more of those. I'm all for it, myself. Instead of wasting time with friendlies against the likes of Oman or "Kuwait Sport", why not bring back these cups? We'd be better off ressurrecting the Copa Rio Branco (Brasil vs Uruguay), Copa Bernardo O'Higgins (Brasil vs Chile) or Copa Oswaldo Cruz (Brasil vs Paraguay). > And thanks for the nice Copa Roca history info! You're welcome. Here are my sources for this info (and about other minor SA cups as well) http://www.rsssf.com/tablesm/minor-satours.html http://www.netvasco.com.br/mauroprais/futbr/braxarg.html Btw, and going a bit off-topic, Mauro Prais also has a very nice website about Vasco. If there's any interest, it's http://www.netvasco.com.br/mauroprais/vasco/index.html -- Lléo
From: Bruce D. Scott on 9 Aug 2010 12:43 Lleo (lleo_lm(a)lycos.com) wrote: : http://globoesporte.globo.com/futebol/selecao-brasileira/noticia/2010/07/cb= : f-e-afa-assinam-acordo-para-reedicao-da-copa-roca.html A great story... if the media pass it off as a useless friendly, at least you can more easily get tickets! -- ciao, Bruce drift wave turbulence: http://www.rzg.mpg.de/~bds/
From: Deeppe on 9 Aug 2010 16:03
On Aug 9, 9:43 am, b...(a)ipp-garching.mpg.de (Bruce D. Scott) wrote: > Lleo (lleo...(a)lycos.com) wrote: > > :http://globoesporte.globo.com/futebol/selecao-brasileira/noticia/2010... > : f-e-afa-assinam-acordo-para-reedicao-da-copa-roca.html > > A great story... Absolutely, love stories like this, thanks for sharing it Lleo. |