From: Clarkoo on 9 Aug 2010 16:48 On Aug 5, 8:20 pm, Lleo <lleo...(a)lycos.com> wrote: > http://globoesporte.globo.com/futebol/selecao-brasileira/noticia/2010... > > Due to an agreement between CBF and AFA, Brasil and Argentina will > meet at least twice per year from 2011 onwards. The two FA's agreed to > ressurrect the old Copa Roca, a friendly cup between these two teams, > held irregularly between 1914 and 1976. Both will have squads composed > only by domestically based players, and the new tournament will be > contested in a home-and-away basis. > > It is a very nice idea, in my opinion. Both national teams, nowadays, > are heavily foreign-based, with only a handful of squad players coming > from the domestic league. It will provide a space for the domestic > based players to appear, thus giving more options to both sides' > managers. And it will do so in a stage where you can't, honestly, > really say "we don't care" - after all, it's the old rival on the > other side. Plus, with Brasil in process of renewing the squad, this > couldn't have been a more welcome return IMO. I figure this also holds > true for Argentina. > > Copa Roca was one of the numerous bilateral tournaments between South > American countries you'd usually see until the 70's/80's. It was held > eleven times, with seven wins for Brasil, three for Argentina and one > shared cup. It was created by Argentinian Lt.General Julio Roca in > 1913, namely to "serve as motivation to our countries' youth, who > cultivate this most noble sport", and provided the stage for not only > the early chapters of this rivalry, but some of the most bitter ones > as well. > > It was first held in 1914, and it indeed looked like a cup as friendly > as it could be. The Brasilian team was very welcomed in Buenos Aires, > and although they comfortably lost a pre-cup friendly 3-0, in the > official game itself (the first of these between Brasil and Argentina) > they went a goal up. The Argentinians drew level with an irregular > goal, which the referee - who was from Brasil! - didn't notice and > validated. The fans didn't celebrate and the Argentinian captain, > then, approached the ref, told him that the goal was illegal and his > team wouldn't accept it. In the end, Brasil won and the celebrations > also involved the Argentinian crowd. Can you possibly imagine such a > scene today? > > Well, you couldn't possibly imagine it by the late 30's already. > Argentina already had the upper hand in the head-to-head encounters, > and had a formidable team. The games were becoming bitter battles, > with the Brasilians getting beaten up in Buenos Aires and the > Argentinians in Rio de Janeiro. The "macaquitos" slur appeared. After > a few of such encounters, which involved broken legs, teams abandoning > the pitch or at least trying to, a penalty taken after the opposing > team abandoned the pitch and both sides's largest victory over the > other (Argentina 6-1, Brasil 6-2), tensions finally reached their peak > in a South American Championship game in 1946. Both sides wouldn't > play each other for ten years, with Argentina refusing to take part of > the SA C'ship 1949 and World Cup 1950 because they were going to be > held in Brasil (and neither would Brasil attend the SA Championships > held in Argentina in this period). > > Copa Roca would resume in 1957, with a certain 16-year old kid > nicknamed "Pelé" making his debut for Brasil at the Maracanã. He > scored a goal, but Brasil would go on to lose 1-2 to the old rival. > Since then, Brasil went on to dominate this fixture (which was 3-3 > until then), with Argentina's only victory coming via a shared title > in 1971. In its last edition, it wasn't even held "on its own"; there > was this other cup, the "Copa del Atlântico" involving Brasil, > Argentina, Uruguay and Paraguay, and Copa Roca was simply awarded to > the winner of the Brasil vs Argentina head-to-head in this tournament > (other bilateral minor cups that year also used this tournament's > result - must have been fun). > > And now it returns. Cold hard logic says it is merely a glorified > friendly. But at least it is one with some history as background, and > that shall serve an immediate purpose from now on. CBF and AFA already > signed terms on paper, here's hoping it will indeed come off next > year. > > -- > Lléo I think another good idea would be to invite Spain to play in the Copa America for the sake of the competition. But then of course it would be a bit strange if Spain becomes "Champions of America". But I believe it has been done before, has it?.
From: Ll�o on 9 Aug 2010 20:43 "Clarkoo" <gables0(a)yahoo.es> escreveu na mensagem news:6a9aa789-e766-4da3-8a8a-18ed2a6e0f6d(a)q22g2000yqm.googlegroups.com... > > I think another good idea would be to invite Spain to play in the Copa > America for the sake of the competition. But then of course it would > be a bit strange if Spain becomes "Champions of America". But I > believe it has been done before, has it?. I think Spain has been invited before (but didn't play), or at least Conmebol intended to bring them in a while ago. I don't know if they gave the same consideration to inviting Portugal, though. It would indeed be strange to see them winning it, but this doesn't seem to bother Conmebol too much - seeing as they brought Japan in 1999 and apparently intend to invite them again in 2011. -- Ll�o
From: Bruce D. Scott on 10 Aug 2010 07:36 Ll�o (lleo_lm(a)lycos.com) wrote: : I think Spain has been invited before (but didn't play), or at least : Conmebol intended to bring them in a while ago. I don't know if they gave : the same consideration to inviting Portugal, though. It would indeed be : strange to see them winning it, but this doesn't seem to bother Conmebol too : much - seeing as they brought Japan in 1999 and apparently intend to invite : them again in 2011. Is the USA going to come back or have we screwed that up forever? -- ciao, Bruce drift wave turbulence: http://www.rzg.mpg.de/~bds/
From: Ll�o on 10 Aug 2010 14:19 "Bruce D. Scott" <bds(a)ipp-garching.mpg.de> escreveu na mensagem news:i3rdkh$2j8g$2(a)gwdu112.gwdg.de... > Ll�o (lleo_lm(a)lycos.com) wrote: > > : I think Spain has been invited before (but didn't play), or at least > : Conmebol intended to bring them in a while ago. I don't know if they > gave > : the same consideration to inviting Portugal, though. It would indeed be > : strange to see them winning it, but this doesn't seem to bother Conmebol > too > : much - seeing as they brought Japan in 1999 and apparently intend to > invite > : them again in 2011. > > Is the USA going to come back or have we screwed that up forever? Good question, one which I'd expect Conmebol to come up with a straight answer. For a while we heard that the invitees would be the Gold Cup finalists, but now they again seem to add Japan to the mix... I certainly hope they aren't auctioning the spot! -- Ll�o
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