From: Lord of War on 14 May 2010 16:35
On May 14, 1:04 am, Abubakr <deltara...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> On May 14, 2:46 pm, "The Scrutineer" <vla...(a)bigpond.com> wrote:
> > "Abubakr" <deltara...(a)gmail.com> wrote in message
> > > Regulations need to come in to stop established professionals from
> > > changing nationalities. One way to do this would be to have any player
> > > registering a professional contract nominate his/her nationality and
> > > that nationality stays with the player for life and cannot be changed..
> > > This still allows juniors to choose between countries that they would
> > > like to represent in international football but it stops third rate
> > > (and at time even first and second rate) Brazilians and the odd
> > > Argentine from playing for the likes of Croatia, Portugal, Germany,
> > > Italy etc...
> > I agree totally with that, with one slight alteration, you may select all
> > nationalities (mother/father/birth/citizenship) when you sign a contract,
> > for obvious reasons, and can get called up by any one of those countries,
> > obviously choosing one at your discretion when asked, because you may have a
> > scenario where you are half Maltese and half Italian for instance, select
> > Italy for obvious reasons, though still being a hard decision, never play
> > for them, but regret it 10 years later when you notice Malta asked for your
> > Nationality status. but cannot represent them of a decision you made which
> > was kind of too hard line Your obvious response is BAD LUCK, but you were
> > never given the opportunity of flexibility which you definitely would have
> > taken by selecting both Malta and Italy!!!
> > What you think!!!
> No I don't like it because I don't like Camorenesi playing for Italy.
> I believe international football is representative football, when a NT
> is picked what is being communicated is that these players are the
> best that this country or football association has been able to
> produce, not this is mostly the best we are able to produce plus one
> or two from that big country in south america (or where ever else).
> If the Maltese guy grew up in Italy and became a professional there,
> he represents Italian football, not Maltese football. If he isn't good
> enough to make it to the NT it's bad luck indeed. And it would also
> stop traitors like Simunic from jumping ship.- Hide quoted text -
> - Show quoted text -
Camorenesi's parents and grand parents were born in Italy and moved to
Argentina. Rossi;'s grendparents and mother were born in Italy and
moved to the USA. There is a law in Italy which states and persons
wanting Itlalian citinzenship who has direbct lineage to Italy of not
more than 11 generations may and will be granted Italian citizenship.
Not too many countries have this as a law. Interstingly enough it was
Mussilini who passed that law and I think it was the only one Italy
kept that he passed. Unlike France who raids noth africa for their
players I think in the case of Italy it's a little different.
From: Lord of War on 14 May 2010 16:36
On May 14, 10:01 am, Chagney Hunt <ess...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> On May 14, 9:45 am, b...(a)ipp-garching.mpg.de (Bruce D. Scott) wrote:
> > The Scrutineer (vla...(a)bigpond.com) wrote:
> > : You both get fired up over little issues, the rule wont change unless
> > : Abubakr is next in line for FIFA presidency, that said, it's not necessarily
> > : right either, it's a good idea, but grey at best, it is hard to get a clear
> > : black and white solution for this subject!!!
> > Gee, even Germany has its Brasilian now...
> If you think about it, it's *more* surprising that first world
> countries like Germany didn't have the first dip of Brazilians (ODL!)
Germany;s two top stars where born in Poland.
From: Karamako on 14 May 2010 18:45
Lord of War wrote:
> Unlike France who raids noth africa for their
> players I think in the case of Italy it's a little different.
From: FF on 14 May 2010 23:14
> Abubakr wrote:
> > Regulations need to come in to stop established professionals from
> > changing nationalities. One way to do this would be to have any player
> > registering a professional contract nominate his/her nationality and
> > that nationality stays with the player for life and cannot be changed.
> That is a little draconian, as they are signing professional contracts
> at 17 or 18, and have no idea at that point how their careers,
> marriages, etc. are going to develop.
> > This still allows juniors to choose between countries that they would
> > like to represent in international football but it stops third rate
> > (and at time even first and second rate) Brazilians and the odd
> > Argentine from playing for the likes of Croatia, Portugal, Germany,
> > Italy etc...
> How is this a problem? It doesn't weaken Brazil or Argentina
> substantially, and only strengthens the other teams a tiny amount.
For now. It might grow in the future. We might get to see, I don't
know, Scotland's brazilians beating Poland's argentinians at WCup
2018. True we're not there yet.
> I would be more concerned (as Bruce points out in another post) about
> the potential for developing football countries losing potential star
> players, who end up sitting on the bench for one of the bigger teams.
> There must be dozens of players with only a handful of caps for France,
> the Netherlands, or England, for example, that could have made a real
> impact with Senegal, Jamaica, Surinam, Trinidad, Ivory coast, Morocco,
> etc. etc.
But according to the OP this is desirable, since they represent the
footballing culture of the country they play in.
(BTW, this means Messi is in fact wrong choosing to play for
Argentina, since he practically has no professional ties with them.
He's almost 100% a product of spanish football. Somehow I don't agree
with this and think Messi is right.)
Anyway, IMO it is a problem that somebody (a brazilian) gets to play
for a country he's not related to (such as Deco). It's not right.
(Even if Portugal once was the colonial motherland of Brazil.)
As for lesser countries loosing talent to bigger ones, it's ambiguous.
Sure, you got to admire Giggs for being loyal to Wales, but thinking
that he had no chance whatsoever of getting some level of NT success
matching his skills (except if Wales take in a couple of brazilians
themselves) this doesn't seem 100% right either. I couldn't hold it
against him if he had chosen England, especially since he's played
practically all his life at ManU.
I think it ought to be limited to countries the player has ties with.
Such as: the one he's spent most of his life before turning 20, or the
one either one of his parents has spent most of their life before
having him. That would stop the brazilian exodus, but would also deny
the next Giggs the chance to play for England (if he doesn't have
english ties that is). Not perfect of course but I could live with it.
But then of course it won't happen, mainly because the european
countries want to be able to benefit from foreign-born talent,
brazilian or otherwise.
From: Jesper Lauridsen on 15 May 2010 02:36
On Fri, 14 May 2010 10:07:48 -0700 (PDT), Jim Goloboy <jim.goloboy(a)gmail.com>
>On May 14, 9:52�am, b...(a)ipp-garching.mpg.de (Bruce D. Scott) wrote:
>> Rossi, Subotic, and Ibisevic are just three of the guys who spent most
>> of their development in the US but play for a "blood-tie" country. �
>Ibisevic never had citizenship and only lived here a couple years, I
>don't think you can say he spent most of his development here. Subotic
>(discovered by USA U-17 coaches in a park) is much worse.
According to wikipedia, Subotic seems to have only lived 7 of his 21 years in
the US, with the U-17 incident being just 2 years. He has lived longer than that