Time for FIFA to do something about this.
in [World Football]
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From: Bob on 14 May 2010 10:16 Bruce D. Scott wrote: > Bob (Bob(a)Bob.com) wrote: >> Abubakr wrote: >>> Regulations need to come in to stop established professionals from >>> changing nationalities. One way to do this would be to have any >>> player registering a professional contract nominate his/her >>> nationality and that nationality stays with the player for life and >>> cannot be changed. This still allows juniors to choose between >>> countries that they would like to represent in international >>> football but it stops third rate (and at time even first and second >>> rate) Brazilians and the odd Argentine from playing for the likes >>> of Croatia, Portugal, Germany, Italy etc... > >> does any team have multiple cases of people jumping country to play >> at the national level or is it just the odd example? > > Rossi, Subotic, and Ibisevic are just three of the guys who spent most > of their development in the US but play for a "blood-tie" country. that is quite aggravating to see a developing football nation have its talent poached by other countries, or at least a lot more so than when a not quite first team Brazilian goes abroad to play international football. In > the other direction, we have the sorry tale of David Regis who got > into the US side by marrying an American and then USSF hiring her as > a travel agent to satisfy the requirement for citizenship by the > slimmest of margins :-) why did they have to hire her? >Like Jermaine Jones in the end he wasn't > good enough. > > There's also plenty of movement in both directions like that in > Germany. > > Owen Hargreaves is a good example: Canada, Wales, England or (somehow) > even Germany. But his dad is English so he played or England without > ever having lived there. > > Then there's Tony Cascarino who admitted after retirement the long > lost grandmother who made him Irish was just made up *ggg*
From: Bruce D. Scott on 14 May 2010 11:24 Bob (Bob(a)Bob.com) wrote: : that is quite aggravating to see a developing football nation have its : talent poached by other countries, or at least a lot more so than when a not : quite first team Brazilian goes abroad to play international football. [replying also to Thach a bit] Perhaps Germany never thought they had to (just as they're one of the few who never had a foreign trainer in the NT). But yes, there are Brasilians all over the place playing for others. Many lower-rate ones, just as you see mediocre American basketballers in every corner of the world. A US woman even got onto the Russian women's Olympic team, mostly because she didn't make ours. Her only connection to Russia is that she plays there. Every Olympics the press run stories about Americans competing for other countries. It is usually a bit over a dozen countries in the summer version. Usually some form of dual citizenship, even if a grandfather clause applied at the last minute. The saddest case was Sydney Maree, a world class miler from the years around 1980. A black from South Africa, he couldn't compete due to the Apartheid. He was fast tracked into the US because his 5 years was just too slow to make it for 1984. They pulled some extraordinary-case strings (I think there was a congressional hearing as in the recent case of the ice dancer from Canada), he got in, and then got injured right before the Games. In the end IIRC he never made it to the Olympics. Of course football is another story, as we are a developing country and not a supplier of talent. : In : > the other direction, we have the sorry tale of David Regis who got : > into the US side by marrying an American and then USSF hiring her as : > a travel agent to satisfy the requirement for citizenship by the : > slimmest of margins :-) : why did they have to hire her? The US rules are that you can apply if you've been in the US (I think it is 5 years _with_ a green card) or in the US and married to an American for 3 years. If it is outside the US, being married to an American only counts if s/he is part of an official US agency. So that's why the USSF hired her ... to make him eligible to go for citizenship. IIRC he got it, got into the team, one or three caps, and then that was it. He was a typical 3rd-div European footballer. -- ciao, Bruce drift wave turbulence: http://www.rzg.mpg.de/~bds/
From: Mark V. on 14 May 2010 12:09 On May 13, 8:57 pm, Abubakr <deltara...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Regulations need to come in to stop established professionals from > changing nationalities. One way to do this would be to have any player > registering a professional contract nominate his/her nationality and > that nationality stays with the player for life and cannot be changed. > This still allows juniors to choose between countries that they would > like to represent in international football but it stops third rate > (and at time even first and second rate) Brazilians and the odd > Argentine from playing for the likes of Croatia, Portugal, Germany, > Italy etc... Here's my idea. When a player suits up for the first time for a national team for an official match, he must have been a citizen (born or naturalized) of that nation for at least four years. This would prevent last-minute naturalizations for the World Cup or Euros, but would also be accepting of immigrants who have become somewhat assimilated in the their new countries. If someone really feels a sense of loyalty or identity with the country to which they've immigrated, that is fine, but they must show it by sitting out a full World Cup cycle.
From: MH on 14 May 2010 12:01 Bob wrote: > Bruce D. Scott wrote: >> Bob (Bob(a)Bob.com) wrote: >>> Abubakr wrote: >>>> Regulations need to come in to stop established professionals from >>>> changing nationalities. One way to do this would be to have any >>>> player registering a professional contract nominate his/her >>>> nationality and that nationality stays with the player for life and >>>> cannot be changed. This still allows juniors to choose between >>>> countries that they would like to represent in international >>>> football but it stops third rate (and at time even first and second >>>> rate) Brazilians and the odd Argentine from playing for the likes >>>> of Croatia, Portugal, Germany, Italy etc... >>> does any team have multiple cases of people jumping country to play >>> at the national level or is it just the odd example? >> Rossi, Subotic, and Ibisevic are just three of the guys who spent most >> of their development in the US but play for a "blood-tie" country. > > that is quite aggravating to see a developing football nation have its > talent poached by other countries, or at least a lot more so than when a not > quite first team Brazilian goes abroad to play international football. I agree - it is much more annoying for Canada to lose players like Hargreaves, De Guzm�n, Begovic, Nsaliwa etc. than to see Deco, Pepe, Cacua etc none of whom might ever had made much of an impact with Brazil, play for other countries. However there is nothing that can be done about it. Some people in this group do not seem to recognize that many people have multiple nationalities they legitimately identify with, and that many countries recognize their right to these multiple nationalities. People do immigrate, change citizenship etc. The current FIFA rules seem to be about the fairest we can get under the circumstances. > > In >> the other direction, we have the sorry tale of David Regis who got >> into the US side by marrying an American and then USSF hiring her as >> a travel agent to satisfy the requirement for citizenship by the >> slimmest of margins :-) > > why did they have to hire her? > >> Like Jermaine Jones in the end he wasn't >> good enough. >> >> There's also plenty of movement in both directions like that in >> Germany. >> >> Owen Hargreaves is a good example: Canada, Wales, England or (somehow) >> even Germany. But his dad is English so he played or England without >> ever having lived there. >> >> Then there's Tony Cascarino who admitted after retirement the long >> lost grandmother who made him Irish was just made up *ggg* > >
From: MH on 14 May 2010 12:13
Abubakr wrote: > Regulations need to come in to stop established professionals from > changing nationalities. One way to do this would be to have any player > registering a professional contract nominate his/her nationality and > that nationality stays with the player for life and cannot be changed. That is a little draconian, as they are signing professional contracts at 17 or 18, and have no idea at that point how their careers, marriages, etc. are going to develop. > This still allows juniors to choose between countries that they would > like to represent in international football but it stops third rate > (and at time even first and second rate) Brazilians and the odd > Argentine from playing for the likes of Croatia, Portugal, Germany, > Italy etc... How is this a problem? It doesn't weaken Brazil or Argentina substantially, and only strengthens the other teams a tiny amount. I would be more concerned (as Bruce points out in another post) about the potential for developing football countries losing potential star players, who end up sitting on the bench for one of the bigger teams. There must be dozens of players with only a handful of caps for France, the Netherlands, or England, for example, that could have made a real impact with Senegal, Jamaica, Surinam, Trinidad, Ivory coast, Morocco, etc. etc. I think the FIFA rules are fine as they are: they recognize that players can and do have multiple national identities,and they don't make decisions made at an early age (eg. to play U20) irrevocable. On the other hand, they do force adult players to make one final choice about which country to play for. If a 30 year old Brazilian has lived in Belgium for 10 years, playing all his football there, has become a Belgian citizen through marriage and naturalization, and has never been called into a Brazil squad, I can't see what earthly objection anyone could have to his playing for Belgium. > |