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From: Quincy on 22 Nov 2009 07:48
Wunderteam 1: Austria 1931-1933:

The world cup 1934 came a little bit late for them. Two years before
nobody could have stopped them, but in 1934 they were still the best,
but lost the Semifinals against Italy because the refery was
completely on Italy's side because of the the pressure of the Italian
regime.
WC1934 SF: Austria - Italy 0:1

Wunderteam 2: Hungary 1952-1956:

This one was the biggest upset in football history as Hungary was
completely on their prime in 1954. They should beat the German team in
the group stages 8-3, won in QF against Brazil 4-2 and in the SF
against defending champion Uruguay 4-2.
That was happenend in the final though is still unexplicable for most
experts. Many bad things came together. Puskas played even obviously
not 100% fit, the heavy rain, the inredible team spirit of the Germans
and a lot of bad luck.
WC1954 F: Hungary - Germany 2:3

Wunderteam 3: Holland 1973-1974:

1974 was A similar situation to 1954: Holland the best team of the
world and taking out all big names for the eventual World Champion,
Germany. The only difference now was that Germany was not the big
underdog here as they had themselves their prime just 2 years before
and so the Dutch faced another very strong team in the finals. Bad
luck.
WC1974 F: Holland - Germany 1:2

Wunderteam 4: Portugal 1999-2000:
The way the young Portugals around Figo became U21 World champions
some years before was so amazing that is wasn't that big surprise that
they easily sent home Germany and England in the group stages of 2000.
In the SF against World Champion France it showed that they were sill
too young to handle such a clever and routined defensive team as
France at this point.
EC2000 SF: Portugal - France 1:2 n.V.

Wunderteam 5: Czechia 2004:
5 years are gone since there match against Holland in EC2004, where
the Czechs beat them 3-2. People are still talking about the finest
and fastest match of all time with plenty of goal chance on both
sides. But similary to the Portugals 4 years before they ran against a
super defensive team in the Semifinals (Greece) and that was the end,
even though they were clearly the better team.
EC2004 SF: Czechia - Greece 0:1 n.V.
From: ken.overton on 22 Nov 2009 09:06
On Nov 22, 7:48 am, Quincy <ab...(a)email.de> wrote:
> <snip>

Is one of the requirements for a wunderteam that they can't come from
S. America?
From: Abubakr on 22 Nov 2009 09:35
On 22 Nov, 23:48, Quincy <ab...(a)email.de> wrote:
> Wunderteam 1: Austria 1931-1933:
>
> The world cup 1934 came a little bit late for them. Two years before
> nobody could have stopped them, but in 1934 they were still the best,
> but lost the Semifinals against Italy because the refery was
> completely on Italy's side because of the the pressure of the Italian
> regime.
> WC1934 SF: Austria - Italy 0:1

Not true. Uruguay was reigning World Cup and Olympic Champions. They
were the team to beat but declined to defend their title as protest
against the perceived snubbing of their tournament by European
countries four years earlier.

> Wunderteam 2: Hungary 1952-1956:
>
> This one was the biggest upset in football history as Hungary was
> completely on their prime in 1954. They should beat the German team in
> the group stages 8-3, won in QF against Brazil 4-2 and in the SF
> against defending champion Uruguay 4-2.
> That was happenend in the final though is still unexplicable for most
> experts. Many bad things came together. Puskas played even obviously
> not 100% fit, the heavy rain, the inredible team spirit of the Germans
> and a lot of bad luck.
> WC1954 F: Hungary - Germany 2:3

This was probably the strongest side in a WC that didn't go on to win
it.

> Wunderteam 3: Holland 1973-1974:
>
> 1974 was A similar situation to 1954: Holland the best team of the
> world and taking out all big names for the eventual World Champion,
> Germany. The only difference now was that Germany was not the big
> underdog here as they had themselves their prime just 2 years before
> and so the Dutch faced another very strong team in the finals. Bad
> luck.
> WC1974 F: Holland - Germany 1:2

Not as bad as Hungary as the Germans were quite formidable in their
own right.

> Wunderteam 4: Portugal 1999-2000:
> The way the young Portugals around Figo became U21 World champions
> some years before was so amazing that is wasn't that big surprise that
> they easily sent home Germany and England in the group stages of 2000.
> In the SF against World Champion France it showed that they were sill
> too young to handle such a clever and routined defensive team as
> France at this point.
> EC2000 SF: Portugal - France 1:2 n.V.

The Euros don't count.


> Wunderteam 5: Czechia 2004:
> 5 years are gone since there match against Holland in EC2004, where
> the Czechs beat them 3-2. People are still talking about the finest
> and fastest match of all time with plenty of goal chance on both
> sides. But similary to the Portugals 4 years before they ran against a
> super defensive team in the Semifinals (Greece) and that was the end,
> even though they were clearly the better team.
> EC2004 SF: Czechia - Greece 0:1 n.V.

Ditto.

You forgot Brazil in 82, one of the last truly great teams to play in
the WC. Not even the winners of subsequent tournaments have generated
as much admiration and given as much joy to football lovers as that
brilliant side did losing it. Those were the days when regional styles
were upheld with pride and their juxtaposition in matches were a major
source of the WC's appeal. Nowadays everybody plays the same and it
ain't no jogo bonito.


From: Abubakr on 22 Nov 2009 16:53
On 23 Nov, 04:11, Static Void <s...(a)ticvoid.com> wrote:
> Abubakr wrote:
> > On 22 Nov, 23:48, Quincy <ab...(a)email.de> wrote:
> >> Wunderteam 1: Austria 1931-1933:
> >> WC1934 SF: Austria - Italy 0:1
>
> > Not true. Uruguay was reigning World Cup and Olympic Champions. They
> > were the team to beat but declined to defend their title as protest
> > against the perceived snubbing of their tournament by European
> > countries four years earlier.
>
> I wasn't aware of that fact, interesting.
>
> >> Wunderteam 2: Hungary 1952-1956:
> >> WC1954 F: Hungary - Germany 2:3
>
> > This was probably the strongest side in a WC that didn't go on to win
> > it.
>
> Stronger than Holland 1974? Hard to believe, but if so they must have
> been a hell of a team.


Comparing teams across eras is always problematic. My own view is that
post 70s at the earliest, football has gotten stronger as a whole,
both physically and in terms of tactics and defensive posture such
that those old great teams would be beaten by later sides more easily
than people would care to think about. If you look at the footage from
1970, they saunter up to opponent's box at almost walking pace without
much hindrance from the team without possession of the ball. Look at
the games from 86 in the same place and the same climate and there's
marked change in physical intensity.

The point I was trying to make was that, IMO, Hungary were farther
ahead of other teams in their era than other great sides that didn't
go on to win the WC were at their own. They had gone four years
undefeated and went another three after the Final undefeated. That
Final is almost unfathomable blip in the long reign of the Magical
Magyars. And a Hell of Team they certainly were. And they were not
only dominant as a NT on the field of play, they're clubs sides were
strong and their coaches the best and most innovative in the world. It
was these coaches that then taught the Brazilians the tactics and
formations with which they would go on to to dominate in the Pele
era.


> >> Wunderteam 3: Holland 1973-1974:
> >> WC1974 F: Holland - Germany 1:2
>
> > Not as bad as Hungary as the Germans were quite formidable in their
> > own right.
>
> They were formidable indeed but nowhere near Holland at that point - I
> think Brazil 1970 is the only team that could compare in greatness four
> years earlier.

Okay perhaps the Euros were not taken as seriously in those days as
they are now but Germany were reigning champions. Their club sides
were about to start a prolong domination of the European scene whilst
the Dutch one had just ended. The Dutch NT were probably at the
beginning of their good spell, remember they hadn't even qualified for
the previous WC and I don't know what happened to them at the Euros
previous and subsequent to 74, since they are conspicuously from the
rolls of honour.

> >> Wunderteam 4: Portugal 1999-2000:
>
> > The Euros don't count.
>
> Ditto.
>
> >> Wunderteam 5: Czechia 2004:
>
> > Ditto.
>
> Ditto two.
>
> > You forgot Brazil in 82, one of the last truly great teams to play in
> > the WC. Not even the winners of subsequent tournaments have generated
> > as much admiration and given as much joy to football lovers as that
> > brilliant side did losing it. Those were the days when regional styles
> > were upheld with pride and their juxtaposition in matches were a major
> > source of the WC's appeal. Nowadays everybody plays the same and it
> > ain't no jogo bonito.
>
> They were a hell lotta fun to watch, the total sum was even greater than
> the sum of its parts as great as they were individually - Zico, Falcao,
> Socrates, Cerezzo.  Beating Maradona & Co. to a pulp a few days before
> the Italian game has been my fondest futebol memory ever since.  Paolo
> Rossi single handedly changed football history, and I shall never forgive
> him for that.

From: chris909 on 22 Nov 2009 17:21
On Nov 22, 9:35 am, Abubakr <deltara...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> On 22 Nov, 23:48, Quincy <ab...(a)email.de> wrote:
>
> > Wunderteam 1: Austria 1931-1933:
>
> > The world cup 1934 came a little bit late for them. Two years before
> > nobody could have stopped them, but in 1934 they were still the best,
> > but lost the Semifinals against Italy because the refery was
> > completely on Italy's side because of the the pressure of the Italian
> > regime.
> > WC1934 SF: Austria - Italy 0:1
>
> Not true. Uruguay was reigning World Cup and Olympic Champions. They
> were the team to beat but declined to defend their title as protest
> against the perceived snubbing of their tournament by European
> countries four years earlier.
>

Still, that does not necessarily mean they were the team to beat, as
the WC1934 was held in Europe. As a southamerican myself I hate to say
that to this date no Southamerican team has won the WC in Europe. Some
say that it was this Austrian team that pioneered the total football
technique.

> > Wunderteam 2: Hungary 1952-1956:
>
> > This one was the biggest upset in football history as Hungary was
> > completely on their prime in 1954. They should beat the German team in
> > the group stages 8-3, won in QF against Brazil 4-2 and in the SF
> > against defending champion Uruguay 4-2.
> > That was happenend in the final though is still unexplicable for most
> > experts. Many bad things came together. Puskas played even obviously
> > not 100% fit, the heavy rain, the inredible team spirit of the Germans
> > and a lot of bad luck.
> > WC1954 F: Hungary - Germany 2:3
>
> This was probably the strongest side in a WC that didn't go on to win
> it.
>

Definitely.

> > Wunderteam 3: Holland 1973-1974:
>
> > 1974 was A similar situation to 1954: Holland the best team of the
> > world and taking out all big names for the eventual World Champion,
> > Germany. The only difference now was that Germany was not the big
> > underdog here as they had themselves their prime just 2 years before
> > and so the Dutch faced another very strong team in the finals. Bad
> > luck.
> > WC1974 F: Holland - Germany 1:2
>
> Not as bad as Hungary as the Germans were quite formidable in their
> own right.
>

True, although the football total from The Netherlands managed to
pretty much trash anybody, including a 2-0 win over East Germany who
had beaten West Germany in the previous round. Poland also deserves a
minor distinction. Could have been the winner with Lato being the top
scorer.

> > Wunderteam 4: Portugal 1999-2000:
> > The way the young Portugals around Figo became U21 World champions
> > some years before was so amazing that is wasn't that big surprise that
> > they easily sent home Germany and England in the group stages of 2000.
> > In the SF against World Champion France it showed that they were sill
> > too young to handle such a clever and routined defensive team as
> > France at this point.
> > EC2000 SF: Portugal - France 1:2 n.V.
>
> The Euros don't count.
>

EC? Who cares ;- ) The WC it is, everything else is what happens
between two World Cups

> > Wunderteam 5: Czechia 2004:
> > 5 years are gone since there match against Holland in EC2004, where
> > the Czechs beat them 3-2. People are still talking about the finest
> > and fastest match of all time with plenty of goal chance on both
> > sides. But similary to the Portugals 4 years before they ran against a
> > super defensive team in the Semifinals (Greece) and that was the end,
> > even though they were clearly the better team.
> > EC2004 SF: Czechia - Greece 0:1 n.V.
>
> Ditto.
>
> You forgot Brazil in 82, one of the last truly great teams to play in
> the WC. Not even the winners of subsequent tournaments have generated
> as much admiration and given as much joy to football lovers as that
> brilliant side did losing it. Those were the days when regional styles
> were upheld with pride and their juxtaposition in matches were a major
> source of the WC's appeal. Nowadays everybody plays the same and it
> ain't no jogo bonito.

Brazil is always a contender and was a great team in 82 as well, but
if there is any World Cup that Italy deserved (clearly 34-38 and 06
were not) then it was this one, with the formidable Zoff and Rossi.

Although light years behind these teams, I remember Denmark 1986 and
the golden generation of Colombia 1994-1998 as fantastic teams (that
lacking the experience choked on the big stage). Also Argentina 06 is
worth mentioning. They produced a fantastic first round with a clinic
in juego bonito and had the QF game against Germany in the bag before
losing it in penalty kicks.
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