Poetic Justice ! France - China SPOILER
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From: MH on 5 Jun 2010 18:54 Bob wrote: > jvazquez(a)semavenca.com wrote: >> On 4 jun, 20:53, "Bob" <B...(a)Bob.com> wrote: >>> The only thing to be sorry about is the disgraceful behavior of >>> those who >>> deny, despite overwhelming evidence, that Given (the Irish goal >>> keeper) took >>> Anelka down in the box minutes before Henry handled the >>> ball: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_vo8OwMBTs >>> >>> Anybody is free to spin anything any which way they want, but the >>> evidence >>> is what it is: Given cheated, Why do you pick on Given? I remember 20 or so players cheating in these two matches. Singling out Given is not really terribly helpful. There was at least one non-penalty call in France's favour in one of the two games, I thought. Irish fans have a right to be indignant, not because Henry cheated quite blatantly (as all the players, or almost all, were guilty of pushing the rules to the limit and beyond), but because the ref and linesman missed it, and FIFA is too stupid to bring in video replays to judge this type of incident. There can be no real argument against video evidence in cases where a goal has been apparently scored (i.e. the ball was in the net), since the play has been stopped already. One of the few things the NHL actually has got right ! then disgracefully gestured to the ref >>> he >>> hadn't touched Anelka, then remained quiet while the Irish FA and >>> the anglo >>> media made asses of themselves. >> Could be, although I still had a tiny doubt if Given actually made >> Anelka fall. >> >> But the hand of Henry was blatantly politically incorrect, whereas the >> penalty by Given, not called, was kind of part of the game. A sort of >> common mistake by the ref. > > The ref not calling the pk is another issue entirely. I am only talking > about the hollier-than-thou attitude of some Irish who had the gall to ask > for a replay when the Irish team cheated first, and the outrageous > witch-hunt against Henry and the French in a media that didn't even bother > to do it's job (note that I am being nice in assuming that it wasn't > deliberate manipulation of the public), and the sheepish fans who gobble-up > everything that is spoon fed to them. BTW, what was Henry suposed to do? > bend over, grab his ankles and take it like a man? > >
From: MH on 5 Jun 2010 18:59 Chagney Hunt wrote: > On Jun 5, 1:37 pm, SHUSSBAR <shuss...(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> On Jun 4, 6:08 pm, gsn <gsnaraya...(a)ymail.com> wrote: >> >> >> >>> On Jun 4, 6:43 pm, "Adama" <s...(a)invalid.com> wrote: >>>> "gsn" <gsnaraya...(a)ymail.com> a �crit dans le message de news: >>>> 78c3885f-188e-4494-b3f0-99ff69932...(a)y21g2000vba.googlegroups.com... >>>>> Thierre Henry was involved in a goal mouth melee in the Chineses >>>>> penalty box. Henry tried to kick the ball over a Chinese defender's >>>>> head towards the goal. A second Chinese defender (sorry, do not know >>>>> the names) and the goal keeper converged on the ball to clear it away. >>>>> In the process, the Chinese defender pushed the away with his hand! >>>>> The referee did not notice this and the game continues! The TV >>>>> announcer showed a couple of replays which showed clear handling of >>>>> the ball, and commented on the irony! >>>>> Thierre was denied a penalty. >>>>> I think it was at the 87' and France were down by one goal and the >>>>> game ended 1-0 China. >>>> Not sure it would be penalty, it didn't look deliberate at all.. >>>> But if the irish are satisfied with this "justice", then it's fine by me. >>> Admittedly it was a border line case, some referees would have >>> awarded a penalty. >>> But it appeared the referee did not even notice it, he was looking at >>> the player who had been tripped down. >>> It was ofcourse partial "justice" (losing to China) , not full >>> justice as it happened only in a friendly! >>> - gsn >> It s part the Domenech tactics. A sort win vs Costa Rica, a tie vs >> Tunisia, a good defeat vs China. Then crawling miserably to the second >> round with 2D, 1W even with 1D, 1L, 1W, then increase in 1/8 and 1/4 >> with 2 1-0 win, a miracle in 1/2 with a PK win after extra time and >> the cherry on the cake, the final where C.Ron headbutts Gourcuff, and >> we win 1-0 vs Portugal . > > :-) You were probably joking, but it's truer than many realize. > France's problem is to get through the group stage. After that their > uber timid style can annoy and upset anyone. Anyone still rememer > France - Spain in '06? I remember it , but I didn't consider France to be timid in that game. They played well, and strangled Spain's attack, and cleverly exploited the new interpretation of the offside rule to score their equalizer. Overall they were the better side, though less attractive to watch. My only complaints were 1) Henry's blatant play acting to try and get Puyol sent off-- that incident, from which the winning goal was scored, was worth AT MOST an indirect free kick. 2) I thought the ref gave Vieira far too much latitude to kick people - he should probably have been carded twice.
From: Bob on 5 Jun 2010 22:03 MH wrote: > Bob wrote: >> jvazquez(a)semavenca.com wrote: >>> On 4 jun, 20:53, "Bob" <B...(a)Bob.com> wrote: >>>> The only thing to be sorry about is the disgraceful behavior of >>>> those who >>>> deny, despite overwhelming evidence, that Given (the Irish goal >>>> keeper) took >>>> Anelka down in the box minutes before Henry handled the >>>> ball: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_vo8OwMBTs >>>> >>>> Anybody is free to spin anything any which way they want, but the >>>> evidence >>>> is what it is: Given cheated, > > Why do you pick on Given? I remember 20 or so players cheating in > these two matches. Singling out Given is not really terribly > helpful. I am not picking on Given. I am pointing at him because he is the player seen cheating in the video just minutes prior to Henry handling the ball. I like Given, or at least I have no reason to not like him, but he cheated as blatantly as Henry did, which directly contradicts media pundit narrative according to which the Irish squad is white as snow and should be going to SA instead of the French squad. Needless to say that it also directly contradicts opinions according to which bad things happening to the french squad is "poetic justice". >There was at least one non-penalty call in France's favour > in one of the two games, I thought. If we are going to try assessing if someone was favored by referring, we'd better do it systematically. > > Irish fans have a right to be indignant, not because Henry cheated > quite blatantly (as all the players, or almost all, were guilty of > pushing the rules to the limit and beyond), but because the ref and > linesman missed it, and FIFA is too stupid to bring in video replays > to judge this type of incident. Sure, but it's not really what we heard. French fans have a right to be indignant for the same reasons you mention (and it is worth asking whether Henry would have cheated if Anelka had been granted a pk), and to be indigant about the way their team and national character were demonized thanks to the public being manipulated by the media and the Irish FA.
From: SHUSSBAR on 6 Jun 2010 08:54 On Jun 5, 1:02 pm, El Kot <nono.black.e...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > SHUSSBAR wrote: > > On Jun 4, 6:08 pm, gsn <gsnaraya...(a)ymail.com> wrote: > > >> It was ofcourse partial "justice" (losing to China) , not full > >> justice as it happened only in a friendly! > > > It s part the Domenech tactics. A sort win vs Costa Rica, a tie vs > > Tunisia, a good defeat vs China. Then crawling miserably to the second > > round with 2D, 1W even with 1D, 1L, 1W, then increase in 1/8 and 1/4 > > with 2 1-0 win, a miracle in 1/2 with a PK win after extra time and > > the cherry on the cake, the final where C.Ron headbutts Gourcuff, and > > we win 1-0 vs Portugal . > > Yeah, but what happens if Portugal fail to reach the Final? What if > it's Argentina, and Ribery stomps on Mascherano (for lack of Lisandro)? > Buh-bye WC then! > >Nah. Mascherano will be suspended for the final for multiple acts of butchery done is semi final. The road is now wide open...:-)
From: Chagney Hunt on 6 Jun 2010 09:46 On Jun 5, 6:59 pm, MH <MHnos...(a)ucalgary.ca> wrote: > Chagney Hunt wrote: > > On Jun 5, 1:37 pm, SHUSSBAR <shuss...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> On Jun 4, 6:08 pm, gsn <gsnaraya...(a)ymail.com> wrote: > > >>> On Jun 4, 6:43 pm, "Adama" <s...(a)invalid.com> wrote: > >>>> "gsn" <gsnaraya...(a)ymail.com> a écrit dans le message de news: > >>>> 78c3885f-188e-4494-b3f0-99ff69932...(a)y21g2000vba.googlegroups.com... > >>>>> Thierre Henry was involved in a goal mouth melee in the Chineses > >>>>> penalty box. Henry tried to kick the ball over a Chinese defender's > >>>>> head towards the goal. A second Chinese defender (sorry, do not know > >>>>> the names) and the goal keeper converged on the ball to clear it away. > >>>>> In the process, the Chinese defender pushed the away with his hand! > >>>>> The referee did not notice this and the game continues! The TV > >>>>> announcer showed a couple of replays which showed clear handling of > >>>>> the ball, and commented on the irony! > >>>>> Thierre was denied a penalty. > >>>>> I think it was at the 87' and France were down by one goal and the > >>>>> game ended 1-0 China. > >>>> Not sure it would be penalty, it didn't look deliberate at all.. > >>>> But if the irish are satisfied with this "justice", then it's fine by me. > >>> Admittedly it was a border line case, some referees would have > >>> awarded a penalty. > >>> But it appeared the referee did not even notice it, he was looking at > >>> the player who had been tripped down. > >>> It was ofcourse partial "justice" (losing to China) , not full > >>> justice as it happened only in a friendly! > >>> - gsn > >> It s part the Domenech tactics. A sort win vs Costa Rica, a tie vs > >> Tunisia, a good defeat vs China. Then crawling miserably to the second > >> round with 2D, 1W even with 1D, 1L, 1W, then increase in 1/8 and 1/4 > >> with 2 1-0 win, a miracle in 1/2 with a PK win after extra time and > >> the cherry on the cake, the final where C.Ron headbutts Gourcuff, and > >> we win 1-0 vs Portugal . > > > :-) You were probably joking, but it's truer than many realize. > > France's problem is to get through the group stage. After that their > > uber timid style can annoy and upset anyone. Anyone still rememer > > France - Spain in '06? > > I remember it , but I didn't consider France to be timid in that game. > They played well, and strangled Spain's attack, and cleverly exploited > the new interpretation of the offside rule to score their equalizer. > Overall they were the better side, though less attractive to watch. > France played very well, but it was sort of like a perfect ambush against over-offensive Spain (Fabregas - Alonso - Xavil; Villa - Raul - Torres). What I remembered was Spanish' light-weighted midfield got eaten up by French's midfield so they had to play around them -- without success as there was very little space, and they were even gifted a penalty by Thuram. In retrospect, it's easy to criticize Aragones for lining up Fabregas - Alonso - Xavi against the French midfield that had both Vieira and Makelele while leaving Senna on the bench, but even after Senna was sent on they made no headway. > My only complaints were 1) Henry's blatant play acting to try and get > Puyol sent off-- that incident, from which the winning goal was scored, > was worth AT MOST an indirect free kick. 2) I thought the ref gave > Vieira far too much latitude to kick people - he should probably have > been carded twice.
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