From: Mark V. on
On May 20, 3:21 pm, "Bob" <B...(a)Bob.com> wrote:

>So, what about that complicated
> situation?

I'm trying to figure it out, too. Are the "Red Shirts" the good guys?
They support Shinawatra (thought I'd mention his name to certify this
thread "On Topic". :-) ). But wasn't he corrupt? The crackdown on
them seems heavy-handed and undemocratic, but was it really that bad?
And do they have to burn Bangkok in response? Or is that a last resort
of disempowered protest movement with a legit gripe? And aren't the
"Yellow Shirts" monarchists and represent the elite? Or is it that
simple. I hope either/both of you share whatever you find out.
From: Deeppe on
On May 20, 11:20 pm, "Mark V." <markvande...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
> On May 20, 3:21 pm, "Bob" <B...(a)Bob.com> wrote:
>
> >So, what about that complicated
> > situation?
>
> I'm trying to figure it out, too. Are the "Red Shirts" the good guys?

Shorthand accounts have them as being mostly poor farmers from Isan
province. Which, btw is where the majority of Bangkok and Phuket
prostitutes hail from.

Aren't these two cities, both centers of prostitution wonderfully
named for english speakers?


> They support Shinawatra (thought I'd mention his name to  certify this
> thread "On Topic".  :-) ).

>But wasn't he corrupt?

Some level of corruption is assumed really. But Thais differentiate
their corruption in both style and substance. Where he falls in this I
have no idea, I'd be very wary of any Western reporting on this topic
unless it was from the Thai POV. And not from any ole Thai with an axe
to grind.

>The crackdown on
> them seems heavy-handed and undemocratic, but was it really that bad?
> And do they have to burn Bangkok in response? Or is that a last resort
> of disempowered protest movement with a legit gripe? And aren't the
> "Yellow Shirts" monarchists and represent the elite? Or is it that
> simple. I hope either/both of you share whatever you find out.

Am under the impression that the wealth in Thailand has become more
concentrated, the rich richer, and the poor a bit poorer, which is at
least one impetus behind this movement. It's been building up for a
while though. Bangkok airport has been closed down at least twice in
the last two years, and things have been tense for a bit longer than
that.


From: Bob on
Deeppe wrote:
> On May 20, 11:20 pm, "Mark V." <markvande...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On May 20, 3:21 pm, "Bob" <B...(a)Bob.com> wrote:
>>
>>> So, what about that complicated
>>> situation?
>>
>> I'm trying to figure it out, too. Are the "Red Shirts" the good guys?
>
> Shorthand accounts have them as being mostly poor farmers from Isan
> province. Which, btw is where the majority of Bangkok and Phuket
> prostitutes hail from.

I read they were a mix of poor farmers with legitimate gripes and inner-city
lumpen with nothing to lose.

>
> Aren't these two cities, both centers of prostitution wonderfully
> named for english speakers?
>
>
>> They support Shinawatra (thought I'd mention his name to certify this
>> thread "On Topic". :-) ).
>
>> But wasn't he corrupt?
>
> Some level of corruption is assumed really. But Thais differentiate
> their corruption in both style and substance. Where he falls in this I
> have no idea, I'd be very wary of any Western reporting on this topic
> unless it was from the Thai POV. And not from any ole Thai with an axe
> to grind.
>
>> The crackdown on
>> them seems heavy-handed and undemocratic, but was it really that bad?
>> And do they have to burn Bangkok in response? Or is that a last
>> resort of disempowered protest movement with a legit gripe? And
>> aren't the "Yellow Shirts" monarchists and represent the elite? Or
>> is it that simple. I hope either/both of you share whatever you find
>> out.
>
> Am under the impression that the wealth in Thailand has become more
> concentrated, the rich richer, and the poor a bit poorer, which is at
> least one impetus behind this movement. It's been building up for a
> while though. Bangkok airport has been closed down at least twice in
> the last two years, and things have been tense for a bit longer than
> that.

There was a street demos/sit ins inspired government change about a year
ago. It was then presented by the western media as a popular movement, so it
isn't entirely expected that the government resulting from these protests be
less than attentive to the needs of the rural poor.


From: Chagney Hunt on
On May 21, 2:20 am, "Mark V." <markvande...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
> On May 20, 3:21 pm, "Bob" <B...(a)Bob.com> wrote:
>
> >So, what about that complicated
> > situation?
>
> I'm trying to figure it out, too. Are the "Red Shirts" the good guys?
> They support Shinawatra (thought I'd mention his name to  certify this
> thread "On Topic".  :-) ). But wasn't he corrupt? The crackdown on
> them seems heavy-handed and undemocratic, but was it really that bad?
> And do they have to burn Bangkok in response? Or is that a last resort
> of disempowered protest movement with a legit gripe? And aren't the
> "Yellow Shirts" monarchists and represent the elite? Or is it that
> simple. I hope either/both of you share whatever you find out.

It's the Catiline conspiracy in live time -- not the one historically
taken verbatim with the heavy-handed oligarch whitewash, of courses.
From: MH on
Chagney Hunt wrote:
> On May 21, 2:20 am, "Mark V." <markvande...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On May 20, 3:21 pm, "Bob" <B...(a)Bob.com> wrote:
>>
>>> So, what about that complicated
>>> situation?
>> I'm trying to figure it out, too. Are the "Red Shirts" the good guys?
>> They support Shinawatra (thought I'd mention his name to certify this
>> thread "On Topic". :-) ). But wasn't he corrupt? The crackdown on
>> them seems heavy-handed and undemocratic, but was it really that bad?
>> And do they have to burn Bangkok in response? Or is that a last resort
>> of disempowered protest movement with a legit gripe? And aren't the
>> "Yellow Shirts" monarchists and represent the elite? Or is it that
>> simple. I hope either/both of you share whatever you find out.
>
> It's the Catiline conspiracy in live time -- not the one historically
> taken verbatim with the heavy-handed oligarch whitewash, of courses.

Interesting comparison. My reading of Sallust and a few other sources
(limited, I agree) is that the Catiline conspiracy was blown way out of
proportion by Cicero (among others) for self serving reasons. There
doesn't seem to have been much real danger to the republic. Sallust is
trying to say the opposite much of the time, but his case that Catiline
was a danger is really quite weak. And wasn't putting him to death
quite unconstitutional?