Most mediocre teams to win the WC
in [World Football]
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From: Mehdi on 19 Jul 2010 18:11 > Subject : Most mediocre teams to win the WC > From : jknapp(a)oacpc.com > Ok, but doesn't it ALWAYS take a special group of players to win a World > Cup? Brazil, Italy and Germany produce a special group of players at regular intervals. That's never been the case with Spain. > What would you suggest they do as an alternative: abandon their unique > strengths and turn their back on the playing style which has won them > two tournaments in a row? A clear distinction should be made between how Spain played at the Euros and how they played at the World Cup. > Yes. Italy, France, and England aren't going away anytime soon. Nor are Germany. England?!??!?! England are doomed. Two of the great central midfielders of the past decade, (at least at club level) Gerrard and Lampard, are the wrong side of 30 but an even bigger problem is the attitude of the players themselves. They live in bubble, protected by their clubs, they cannot handle either the pressure or demands of living outside of that environment - note the complaints about boredom at the camp. No video games, no wags, no alcohol, not allowed out = moan, moan, moan. Pathetic. Sky have created a monster, the rampant commercialisation of the EPL and demands of their TV market have destroyed English football and the situation will only get worse. 60 something percent foreigners in the EPL? How long before that rises to 70%? England may win the rights to host the 2018 World Cup and it will make a fortune for the FA but it's hard to image in just 8 years they'll have a team capable of getting to the QFs let alone winning the competition. -- http://soccer-europe.com Rss feed : http://soccer-europe.com/RSS/News.xml
From: Italian Mike on 19 Jul 2010 19:13 Bob wrote: > Binder Dundat wrote: > > On Jul 19, 11:49 am, "Bob" <B...(a)Bob.com> wrote: > >> Italian Mike wrote: > >>> Mehdi wrote: > >>>>> Subject : Most mediocre teams to win the WC > >>>>> From : italian.mik...(a)gmail.com > >> > >>>>> Exactly, the praise this team has earned in the media just reveals > >>>>> the quality of the double standards that exist. > >> > >>>> While this is true I also think this WC will be forgotten about > >>>> very quickly. There wasn't a single all time great at this > >>>> tournament, there were three players that would have reached that > >>>> status had they won the competition i.e. Maicon, Lucio and Messi. > >> > >>> It may be forgotten, or seen as it really was by seasoned viewers > >>> who know what they are watching, but the typical World Cup fan > >>> every four years is going to repeat what they are told, and Spain > >>> being one of the greatest attacking teams of all time is likely > >>> what they'll be repeating. I've heard it already being echoed > >>> around my parts and it's hardly a soccer/football mad city. > >> > >>> Anyway, whoever said that Spains Tiki-Taka was a defensive weapon > >>> was bang on. I'll be honest, it was a good defensive weapon too, but > >>> nothing more than that. Other goals came on desperation plays, set > >>> pieces, and direct football, no square or triangle passing into the > >>> net at all. > >> > >> Spain outshot their opponents by 33-50% (except for Chile). Playing > >> possession ball (an offensive tactics) has always lead to stronger > >> defense, way before the words tiki taka were pronounced for the > >> first time. Spare us the senseless negative spin. > > > > I think the best defensive weapon is attacking every time you have the > > ball, keeping it away from the opponent and scoring on each attack. I > > know it is purely a defensive tactic but it can work! I mean if you > > could score every time you have possession and continuously attack and > > the other team never has the ball you stand a better than 50% chance > > of at least getting a draw? > > pretty much ;) > > > > > Man this group goes down hill during the summer, too bad there wasn't > > some football event they could plan to keep people occupied during > > June and July? > > > > Now can someone please analyze the best shoe laces to use on a wet > > pitch! Or how about the stats on curly haired players accuracy on > > headers vs bald headed players? > > > > Spain deserved to win the WM, plain and simple. > > That's a fact the negative spinmeisters can't contest, but they'll try to > tarnish that win as much as they can. Tarnish what? Here's another example of assaulting the messenger, not the message. If you have a counter argument, make it, otherwise you've failed to say anything significant. Keeping possession is a brilliant defensive strategy, especially when you can't triangle pass the ball in the net. These are facts that are quite easily observable when you watch Spain play. I also said they were probably the best team in the tournament aside from Brazil. Where's the negative spin in that? When Spain needed a goal, it wasn't from triangle passing. It was usually a direct assault on net, or a set play. Counter that as an argument, if you can. JCQ writes: >I find it amusing how you can think any team could give Spain a >footballing lesson. USA Confed Cup 2009. >They have played just about everyone over the last >4 years and it's been the other way around. When did they play Brazil? That's rhetorical. They haven't since 99 IIRC. >Including when they played Italy. Explain, with something more than possession. I've given my reasons for why I think Italy 06 would have taken Spain 2010. Using the Euro as a basis with the team 2 years older, missing key components like Cannavaro, Gattuso, Pirlo all who were injured or suspended and still in form. Totti who had retired. Italy had the two best chances of the match. The end tally on net was 6 shots for Italy, 8 for Spain. Spain had their triangle passing in the middle of the field, and were forced wide or to shoot for goal. Spain also did something I had never seen them do before, and pulled their whole team to defend when Italy went forward. So explain your side now. > With comments like yours we are seeing nothing more than >football envy. If you're going to bow out with something this weak, you're only going to succeed in gaining the favor of others who already hate Italy. It's not big deal, you'll have a lot of friends. But I'll shatter your miserable dream by asking what am I supposed to be envious of? >They did not win every match in the world cup easily >but that's more about the nature of the sport than anything else. I don't remember the critics of Italy letting them off the hook in 2006 with this, but carry on... >It's >more about how teams respected them more than any team has been >respected in the last 20 years. I'm not sure the Swiss respected them anymore than did what they could to win the game. >Holland changed their style of play You didn't watch Holland's play prior to this match then did you? The only thing Holland did more of was kick and foul, but they changed very little. Spain did a bit more play acting, likely due to the increased fouling on Holland's part, but still there was not significant change in Holland's play. > Germany also did not play Spain straight up. True, and I think I've said why. >Spain have given >many teams a footballing lesson and this will probably continue for >some time. So now dominating possession at center field and winning 1-0 is a footballing lesson. I like that sort of re-frame ideology. I'll need to remember this. Bob: >Spain outshot their opponents by 33-50% (except for Chile). Playing >possession ball (an offensive tactics) has always lead to stronger defense, >way before the words tiki taka were pronounced for the first time. Spare us >the senseless negative spin. It would only be senseless spin if I considered defense to be negative. I don't. I know that if Spain didn't start playing with a team focus in defense they wouldn't have won the last two cups. I remember telling a Spanish friend of mine this after 06. He agreed. We saw how they began incorporating this under Aragones. Spain's possession was brilliant defensive strategy given that most of it happened at the half, and many teams were bunkering at this point. Name one time they triangle passed the ball into the net. I counted about 6 times they went direct from either a Pique long pass or a Xavi through ball to Pedro or Capdevilla who cut it back for Alonso, Villa or Torres (when he was subbed) that ended up with a good scoring chance. I also counted about 8 failed opportunities when they tried to triangle pass into Germany's box. Those are my arguments. If you can counter them, be my guest. So in the future, before making senseless judgements, qualify your buyer first, or you might go hungry with few sales.
From: Italian Mike on 19 Jul 2010 19:17 Mehdi wrote: > > Subject : Most mediocre teams to win the WC > > From : italian.mike08(a)gmail.com > > > It may be forgotten, or seen as it really was by seasoned viewers who > > know what they are watching, but the typical World Cup fan every four > > years is going to repeat what they are told, and Spain being one of > > the greatest attacking teams of all time is likely what they'll be > > repeating. I've heard it already being echoed around my parts and it's > > hardly a soccer/football mad city. > > Fly by nighters are always quick to jump on bandwagons. Anyone who jumps on bandwagons will do this, true. After 2002 I saw so many people who were not Brazilian wearing Brazil jersey's, same with Italian jerseys after 2006. Already I've seen an increase in Spanish jersey's. I'm not surprised. Most people want to be winners.
From: Mehdi on 19 Jul 2010 19:59 > Subject : Most mediocre teams to win the WC > From : italian.mike08(a)gmail.com > Anyone who jumps on bandwagons will do this, true. After 2002 I saw so > many people who were not Brazilian wearing Brazil jersey's, same with > Italian jerseys after 2006. Already I've seen an increase in Spanish > jersey's. I'm not surprised. Most people want to be winners. It's not jumping on the bandwagon that I have issues with, the issue is the manner of victory. We both know had Italy won 2006 playing the style of football Brazil played in 1994, almost kicking their way to victory or Spain in 2010 with a tedious and again cynical style of football not to mention the worst diving and playacting by any team in a tournament since 1990 it would have been hailed as the death of football. Spain score one goal more than Greece in 2004, having played a game more, yet they're still a great 'attacking' side. The hypocrisy is astounding but if nothing else it provides plenty of ammunition against the many detractors of calcio. -- http://soccer-europe.com Rss feed : http://soccer-europe.com/RSS/News.xml
From: Bob on 19 Jul 2010 20:41
Italian Mike wrote: > Bob wrote: >> Binder Dundat wrote: >>> On Jul 19, 11:49 am, "Bob" <B...(a)Bob.com> wrote: >>>> Italian Mike wrote: >>>>> Mehdi wrote: >>>>>>> Subject : Most mediocre teams to win the WC >>>>>>> From : italian.mik...(a)gmail.com >>>> >>>>>>> Exactly, the praise this team has earned in the media just >>>>>>> reveals the quality of the double standards that exist. >>>> >>>>>> While this is true I also think this WC will be forgotten about >>>>>> very quickly. There wasn't a single all time great at this >>>>>> tournament, there were three players that would have reached that >>>>>> status had they won the competition i.e. Maicon, Lucio and Messi. >>>> >>>>> It may be forgotten, or seen as it really was by seasoned viewers >>>>> who know what they are watching, but the typical World Cup fan >>>>> every four years is going to repeat what they are told, and Spain >>>>> being one of the greatest attacking teams of all time is likely >>>>> what they'll be repeating. I've heard it already being echoed >>>>> around my parts and it's hardly a soccer/football mad city. >>>> >>>>> Anyway, whoever said that Spains Tiki-Taka was a defensive weapon >>>>> was bang on. I'll be honest, it was a good defensive weapon too, >>>>> but nothing more than that. Other goals came on desperation >>>>> plays, set pieces, and direct football, no square or triangle >>>>> passing into the net at all. >>>> >>>> Spain outshot their opponents by 33-50% (except for Chile). Playing >>>> possession ball (an offensive tactics) has always lead to stronger >>>> defense, way before the words tiki taka were pronounced for the >>>> first time. Spare us the senseless negative spin. >>> >>> I think the best defensive weapon is attacking every time you have >>> the ball, keeping it away from the opponent and scoring on each >>> attack. I know it is purely a defensive tactic but it can work! I >>> mean if you could score every time you have possession and >>> continuously attack and the other team never has the ball you stand >>> a better than 50% chance of at least getting a draw? >> >> pretty much ;) >> >>> >>> Man this group goes down hill during the summer, too bad there >>> wasn't some football event they could plan to keep people occupied >>> during June and July? >>> >>> Now can someone please analyze the best shoe laces to use on a wet >>> pitch! Or how about the stats on curly haired players accuracy on >>> headers vs bald headed players? >>> >>> Spain deserved to win the WM, plain and simple. >> >> That's a fact the negative spinmeisters can't contest, but they'll >> try to tarnish that win as much as they can. > > Tarnish what? Here's another example of assaulting the messenger, not > the message. If you have a counter argument, make it, otherwise you've > failed to say anything significant. I have already made my argument but you'd rather ignore it than answer it. > Keeping possession is a brilliant defensive strategy, especially when > you can't triangle pass the ball in the net. These are facts that are > quite easily observable when you watch Spain play. I also said they > were probably the best team in the tournament aside from Brazil. > Where's the negative spin in that? Because you know that teams with offensive tactics are more highly regarded by today's fans, whereas teams with mostly defensive tactics aren't so much appreciated. > When Spain needed a goal, it wasn't from triangle passing. It was > usually a direct assault on net, or a set play. All teams faced with mostly defensive tactics have similar difficulty scoring in the modern game. > Counter that as an argument, if you can. LOL. |