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From: Mentalguy2k8 on 8 May 2010 11:46

"Red Rackham" <ONeil37(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:UAfFn.1076$NJ3.725(a)newsfe25.ams2...
>
> "Mentalguy2k8" <Mentalguy2k8(a)gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:%6fFn.13221$IA1.872(a)newsfe06.ams2...
>>
>> "Red Rackham" <ONeil37(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:22fFn.12988$IA1.5934(a)newsfe06.ams2...
>>>
>>> "Mozzer" <mozzer.mozzer(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
>>> news:hs3rjr$2ek$1(a)news.eternal-september.org...
>>>> People in Liverpool identify with a political party like they do with a
>>>> particular faith.
>>>>
>>>> They vote Labour because that is what they have always done. It's what
>>>> their parents and granparents always did, and political affiliation has
>>>> been handed down.
>>>>
>>>> Politics or policy is irrelevant, 70% of Liverpool Labour Party voters
>>>> could not explain the difference between Labour and Tory policies if
>>>> their life depended on it, just like they could not explain the
>>>> difference between catholic or protestant religions despite claiming
>>>> allegiance to one of them.
>>>>
>>>> I asked loads of my labour voting friends what policies they
>>>> particulary agreed with and got the same answer back:
>>>>
>>>> "errr. dunno,I just vote for them because I always have like"
>>>>
>>>> Sad, really really sad.
>>>
>>>
>>> That's funny. I did the same with some conservatives. Not one could name
>>> a policy let alone say they supported it. It was mostly, 'anyone but
>>> Brown'.
>>
>> I had the same conversation with a Labour supporter in this group a few
>> days ago. He came out with some outrageous lies about what would happen
>> to the country under Cameron, but couldn't support any of it with fact.
>
>
> Could you tell me what the weather will be like next monday and can you
> support it with fact?
>
> Can you tell me any of the next world cup scores and support them with
> fact?
>
> Not really. But you can get fairly close to future events by studying
> those of the past.
>
> I think the very nice chap you were conversing with tried to explain that
> you cannot produce facts concering future events. You can only be guided
> by the past.

But that same very nice chap assured me that it was fact. I'd have been
happier if he'd merely said that the scenarios he predicted were his
opinion, but he claimed them to be fact. The conversation is still there if
you fancy looking.

From: Red Rackham on 8 May 2010 11:47

"Mentalguy2k8" <Mentalguy2k8(a)gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1HfFn.14639$IA1.11242(a)newsfe06.ams2...
>
> "Red Rackham" <ONeil37(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:UAfFn.1076$NJ3.725(a)newsfe25.ams2...
>>
>> "Mentalguy2k8" <Mentalguy2k8(a)gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:%6fFn.13221$IA1.872(a)newsfe06.ams2...
>>>
>>> "Red Rackham" <ONeil37(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:22fFn.12988$IA1.5934(a)newsfe06.ams2...
>>>>
>>>> "Mozzer" <mozzer.mozzer(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
>>>> news:hs3rjr$2ek$1(a)news.eternal-september.org...
>>>>> People in Liverpool identify with a political party like they do with
>>>>> a particular faith.
>>>>>
>>>>> They vote Labour because that is what they have always done. It's what
>>>>> their parents and granparents always did, and political affiliation
>>>>> has been handed down.
>>>>>
>>>>> Politics or policy is irrelevant, 70% of Liverpool Labour Party voters
>>>>> could not explain the difference between Labour and Tory policies if
>>>>> their life depended on it, just like they could not explain the
>>>>> difference between catholic or protestant religions despite claiming
>>>>> allegiance to one of them.
>>>>>
>>>>> I asked loads of my labour voting friends what policies they
>>>>> particulary agreed with and got the same answer back:
>>>>>
>>>>> "errr. dunno,I just vote for them because I always have like"
>>>>>
>>>>> Sad, really really sad.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> That's funny. I did the same with some conservatives. Not one could
>>>> name a policy let alone say they supported it. It was mostly, 'anyone
>>>> but Brown'.
>>>
>>> I had the same conversation with a Labour supporter in this group a few
>>> days ago. He came out with some outrageous lies about what would happen
>>> to the country under Cameron, but couldn't support any of it with fact.
>>
>>
>> Could you tell me what the weather will be like next monday and can you
>> support it with fact?
>>
>> Can you tell me any of the next world cup scores and support them with
>> fact?
>>
>> Not really. But you can get fairly close to future events by studying
>> those of the past.
>>
>> I think the very nice chap you were conversing with tried to explain that
>> you cannot produce facts concering future events. You can only be guided
>> by the past.
>
> But that same very nice chap assured me that it was fact. I'd have been
> happier if he'd merely said that the scenarios he predicted were his
> opinion, but he claimed them to be fact. The conversation is still there
> if you fancy looking.


It is a fact that the Tories will spend less than Labour on public services.

Is that what you meant?


From: Mentalguy2k8 on 8 May 2010 11:58

"Red Rackham" <ONeil37(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:oIfFn.1330$NJ3.939(a)newsfe25.ams2...
>
> "Mentalguy2k8" <Mentalguy2k8(a)gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1HfFn.14639$IA1.11242(a)newsfe06.ams2...
>>
>> "Red Rackham" <ONeil37(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:UAfFn.1076$NJ3.725(a)newsfe25.ams2...
>>>
>>> "Mentalguy2k8" <Mentalguy2k8(a)gmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:%6fFn.13221$IA1.872(a)newsfe06.ams2...
>>>>
>>>> "Red Rackham" <ONeil37(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:22fFn.12988$IA1.5934(a)newsfe06.ams2...
>>>>>
>>>>> "Mozzer" <mozzer.mozzer(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
>>>>> news:hs3rjr$2ek$1(a)news.eternal-september.org...
>>>>>> People in Liverpool identify with a political party like they do with
>>>>>> a particular faith.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> They vote Labour because that is what they have always done. It's
>>>>>> what their parents and granparents always did, and political
>>>>>> affiliation has been handed down.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Politics or policy is irrelevant, 70% of Liverpool Labour Party
>>>>>> voters could not explain the difference between Labour and Tory
>>>>>> policies if their life depended on it, just like they could not
>>>>>> explain the difference between catholic or protestant religions
>>>>>> despite claiming allegiance to one of them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I asked loads of my labour voting friends what policies they
>>>>>> particulary agreed with and got the same answer back:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "errr. dunno,I just vote for them because I always have like"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sad, really really sad.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> That's funny. I did the same with some conservatives. Not one could
>>>>> name a policy let alone say they supported it. It was mostly, 'anyone
>>>>> but Brown'.
>>>>
>>>> I had the same conversation with a Labour supporter in this group a few
>>>> days ago. He came out with some outrageous lies about what would happen
>>>> to the country under Cameron, but couldn't support any of it with fact.
>>>
>>>
>>> Could you tell me what the weather will be like next monday and can you
>>> support it with fact?
>>>
>>> Can you tell me any of the next world cup scores and support them with
>>> fact?
>>>
>>> Not really. But you can get fairly close to future events by studying
>>> those of the past.
>>>
>>> I think the very nice chap you were conversing with tried to explain
>>> that you cannot produce facts concering future events. You can only be
>>> guided by the past.
>>
>> But that same very nice chap assured me that it was fact. I'd have been
>> happier if he'd merely said that the scenarios he predicted were his
>> opinion, but he claimed them to be fact. The conversation is still there
>> if you fancy looking.
>
>
> It is a fact that the Tories will spend less than Labour on public
> services.
>
> Is that what you meant?

Yes, it's a fact that the Tories will spend as much on public services as
Labour had planned to. I gave you the link that proved that Labour could not
sustain their spending and were planning to slash budgets by huge amounts
over the next few years.

Being clever with words and selective with facts is not the same as being
honest.

From: Red Rackham on 8 May 2010 12:07

"Mentalguy2k8" <Mentalguy2k8(a)gmail.com> wrote in message
news:GSfFn.15087$IA1.11798(a)newsfe06.ams2...
>
> "Red Rackham" <ONeil37(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:oIfFn.1330$NJ3.939(a)newsfe25.ams2...
>>
>> "Mentalguy2k8" <Mentalguy2k8(a)gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:1HfFn.14639$IA1.11242(a)newsfe06.ams2...
>>>
>>> "Red Rackham" <ONeil37(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:UAfFn.1076$NJ3.725(a)newsfe25.ams2...
>>>>
>>>> "Mentalguy2k8" <Mentalguy2k8(a)gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:%6fFn.13221$IA1.872(a)newsfe06.ams2...
>>>>>
>>>>> "Red Rackham" <ONeil37(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:22fFn.12988$IA1.5934(a)newsfe06.ams2...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Mozzer" <mozzer.mozzer(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:hs3rjr$2ek$1(a)news.eternal-september.org...
>>>>>>> People in Liverpool identify with a political party like they do
>>>>>>> with a particular faith.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> They vote Labour because that is what they have always done. It's
>>>>>>> what their parents and granparents always did, and political
>>>>>>> affiliation has been handed down.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Politics or policy is irrelevant, 70% of Liverpool Labour Party
>>>>>>> voters could not explain the difference between Labour and Tory
>>>>>>> policies if their life depended on it, just like they could not
>>>>>>> explain the difference between catholic or protestant religions
>>>>>>> despite claiming allegiance to one of them.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I asked loads of my labour voting friends what policies they
>>>>>>> particulary agreed with and got the same answer back:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "errr. dunno,I just vote for them because I always have like"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sad, really really sad.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's funny. I did the same with some conservatives. Not one could
>>>>>> name a policy let alone say they supported it. It was mostly, 'anyone
>>>>>> but Brown'.
>>>>>
>>>>> I had the same conversation with a Labour supporter in this group a
>>>>> few days ago. He came out with some outrageous lies about what would
>>>>> happen to the country under Cameron, but couldn't support any of it
>>>>> with fact.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Could you tell me what the weather will be like next monday and can you
>>>> support it with fact?
>>>>
>>>> Can you tell me any of the next world cup scores and support them with
>>>> fact?
>>>>
>>>> Not really. But you can get fairly close to future events by studying
>>>> those of the past.
>>>>
>>>> I think the very nice chap you were conversing with tried to explain
>>>> that you cannot produce facts concering future events. You can only be
>>>> guided by the past.
>>>
>>> But that same very nice chap assured me that it was fact. I'd have been
>>> happier if he'd merely said that the scenarios he predicted were his
>>> opinion, but he claimed them to be fact. The conversation is still there
>>> if you fancy looking.
>>
>>
>> It is a fact that the Tories will spend less than Labour on public
>> services.
>>
>> Is that what you meant?
>
> Yes, it's a fact that the Tories will spend as much on public services as
> Labour had planned to.


You're taking the word of a politician? I prefer to look at what they
actually do.

And every year since the war it's been to spend less on public services than
Labour.

How will the Tories fund their tax cuts?




I gave you the link that proved that Labour could not
> sustain their spending and were planning to slash budgets by huge amounts
> over the next few years.


Indeed they are. They've no choice. They will still do more for public
services than the Tories because the Tories don't believe in them and have
to fund tax cuts.

Unless you know somewhere else they'll find the money?


>
> Being clever with words and selective with facts is not the same as being
> honest.


Indeed. But you seem to believe everything the Tories tell you.


From: Mentalguy2k8 on 8 May 2010 12:11

"Red Rackham" <ONeil37(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:__fFn.2035$NJ3.383(a)newsfe25.ams2...
>
> "Mentalguy2k8" <Mentalguy2k8(a)gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:GSfFn.15087$IA1.11798(a)newsfe06.ams2...
>>
>> "Red Rackham" <ONeil37(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:oIfFn.1330$NJ3.939(a)newsfe25.ams2...
>>>
>>> "Mentalguy2k8" <Mentalguy2k8(a)gmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:1HfFn.14639$IA1.11242(a)newsfe06.ams2...
>>>>
>>>> "Red Rackham" <ONeil37(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:UAfFn.1076$NJ3.725(a)newsfe25.ams2...
>>>>>
>>>>> "Mentalguy2k8" <Mentalguy2k8(a)gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:%6fFn.13221$IA1.872(a)newsfe06.ams2...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Red Rackham" <ONeil37(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:22fFn.12988$IA1.5934(a)newsfe06.ams2...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Mozzer" <mozzer.mozzer(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:hs3rjr$2ek$1(a)news.eternal-september.org...
>>>>>>>> People in Liverpool identify with a political party like they do
>>>>>>>> with a particular faith.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> They vote Labour because that is what they have always done. It's
>>>>>>>> what their parents and granparents always did, and political
>>>>>>>> affiliation has been handed down.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Politics or policy is irrelevant, 70% of Liverpool Labour Party
>>>>>>>> voters could not explain the difference between Labour and Tory
>>>>>>>> policies if their life depended on it, just like they could not
>>>>>>>> explain the difference between catholic or protestant religions
>>>>>>>> despite claiming allegiance to one of them.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I asked loads of my labour voting friends what policies they
>>>>>>>> particulary agreed with and got the same answer back:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "errr. dunno,I just vote for them because I always have like"
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sad, really really sad.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That's funny. I did the same with some conservatives. Not one could
>>>>>>> name a policy let alone say they supported it. It was mostly,
>>>>>>> 'anyone but Brown'.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I had the same conversation with a Labour supporter in this group a
>>>>>> few days ago. He came out with some outrageous lies about what would
>>>>>> happen to the country under Cameron, but couldn't support any of it
>>>>>> with fact.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Could you tell me what the weather will be like next monday and can
>>>>> you support it with fact?
>>>>>
>>>>> Can you tell me any of the next world cup scores and support them with
>>>>> fact?
>>>>>
>>>>> Not really. But you can get fairly close to future events by studying
>>>>> those of the past.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think the very nice chap you were conversing with tried to explain
>>>>> that you cannot produce facts concering future events. You can only be
>>>>> guided by the past.
>>>>
>>>> But that same very nice chap assured me that it was fact. I'd have been
>>>> happier if he'd merely said that the scenarios he predicted were his
>>>> opinion, but he claimed them to be fact. The conversation is still
>>>> there if you fancy looking.
>>>
>>>
>>> It is a fact that the Tories will spend less than Labour on public
>>> services.
>>>
>>> Is that what you meant?
>>
>> Yes, it's a fact that the Tories will spend as much on public services as
>> Labour had planned to.
>
>
> You're taking the word of a politician? I prefer to look at what they
> actually do.
>
> And every year since the war it's been to spend less on public services
> than Labour.
>
> How will the Tories fund their tax cuts?
>
>
>
>
> I gave you the link that proved that Labour could not
>> sustain their spending and were planning to slash budgets by huge amounts
>> over the next few years.
>
>
> Indeed they are. They've no choice. They will still do more for public
> services than the Tories because the Tories don't believe in them and have
> to fund tax cuts.
>
> Unless you know somewhere else they'll find the money?

>
>
>>
>> Being clever with words and selective with facts is not the same as being
>> honest.
>
>
> Indeed. But you seem to believe everything the Tories tell you.

Such as?

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