Fabregas and Arsenal
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From: Manx Gunner on 14 Jul 2010 13:41 [RED DEVIL <manutd11XX(a)bellsouth.net>] [Wed, 14 Jul 2010 12:42:51 -0400] : >[RED DEVIL <manutd11XX(a)bellsouth.net>] : >[Wed, 14 Jul 2010 00:45:45 -0400] : > : >: If debt is no issue at Arsenal then the board needs to fire Wenger : >: since he's brought zero success the last 6 years. : > : >You need to learn the difference between responsible stewardship and : >spending to the point that it amounts to fiddling while Rome burns. : > : >The trophy cabinet is the same as it was five years ago, yes, but that : >is not an automatic indication of 'zero success', and you know it. It : >wasn't spending that kicked Eduardo out of the season and Arsenal just : >barely out of the title that year. Etc. There are more than a few big : >clubs all chasing the same prize(s)... can't all of them win all the : >time; that's just simple mathematics. : : That's all well and good, but how can you claim that Arsenal are not : in debt? I've made no such claim. I have rubbished your nonsense claims that the debt is out of control, trashing on-field resuls, etc. It really is quite something that a MUFC supporter has the front to point the 'debt' finger at any other club. How much of your club's debt repayment each year is just to *maintain*, not reduce, the debt load? Give me a break. -- "Look at the way teams play against Arsenal. They don't believe they can win. They don't believe." -- Jose Mourinho
From: Manx Gunner on 14 Jul 2010 13:42 [RED DEVIL <manutd11XX(a)bellsouth.net>] [Wed, 14 Jul 2010 12:44:46 -0400] : Not trying to twist anything, the reason you haven't won anything is : because Wenger has been unable to spend any money because the club is : in fact...in debt, agree? Utter nonsense. -- "Look at the way teams play against Arsenal. They don't believe they can win. They don't believe." -- Jose Mourinho
From: RED DEVIL on 14 Jul 2010 14:25 On Thu, 15 Jul 2010 02:54:54 +1000, "The Scrutineer" <vlade4(a)bigpond.com> wrote: >>>The trophy cabinet is the same as it was five years ago, yes, but that >>>is not an automatic indication of 'zero success', and you know it. It >>>wasn't spending that kicked Eduardo out of the season and Arsenal just >>>barely out of the title that year. Etc. There are more than a few big >>>clubs all chasing the same prize(s)... can't all of them win all the >>>time; that's just simple mathematics. >> >> That's all well and good, but how can you claim that Arsenal are not >> in debt? >> RED DEVIL > >Arsenal are 135m pounds in debt, which if current standards are kept, will >be debt free within 3-5 seasons, making debt at Arsenal a non issue as those >standards have been maintaind from the word go, until the last letter I type >in this post, and until it clears. > >I personally have never said Arsenal are not in debt, just maintained that >debt is NOT an issue at Arsenal, as other contriubutors here also tend to >agree/enhance upon!!! Look, my point was the debt that Arsenal have is indeed an issue, it's been an issue for years. I'm not saying that the club isn't managing it correctly but to say it's been no issue is simply not true. You don't think Wenger would have loved to have had the money to strengthen the squad in recent years? Any manager worth his salt would have. RED DEVIL
From: RED DEVIL on 14 Jul 2010 14:41 On Thu, 15 Jul 2010 03:12:39 +1000, "The Scrutineer" <vlade4(a)bigpond.com> wrote: > > >"RED DEVIL" <manutd11XX(a)bellsouth.net> wrote in message >news:tcqr36phgg0lvd4rtm2gbf1g6rpgd2mg5j(a)4ax.com... >> On Wed, 14 Jul 2010 13:02:10 +0200, Mart van de Wege >> <mvdwege(a)mail.com> wrote: >> >>>Manx Gunner <goal(a)4thegunners!.com> writes: >>> >>>> [RED DEVIL <manutd11XX(a)bellsouth.net>] >>>> [Wed, 14 Jul 2010 00:47:27 -0400] >>>> >>>> : >: It's very much an issue and is the main reason that they have won >>>> : >: nothing for the last 5 years. >>>> : > >>>> : >It doesn't matter how many times you repeat it, RD... it's not true. >>>> : > >>>> : >Worry about your own version of Leeds 2 up there in Manchester. >>>> >>>> : You should read your clubs accounts when they post. like it or not >>>> : Arsenal are indeed in debt and have been for about 6 years. Putting >>>> : your fingers in your ears and shouting loud won't make this go away. >>>> >>>> The debt consists pretty much entirely of the stadium mortgage, and has >>>> been managed well from the first day it was added to the books. >>>> >>>Here's another thing: the absolute value of the debt doesn't >>>matter. What matters if revenues can cover the interest. >>> >>>Mart >> >> Which is exactly the argument that Manchester United makes >> RED DEVIL > >Those revenues which wont consist of 5 Ronaldo's over the next 5 seasons to >cover those interests, nor the prize money usually associated with Man Utd >as other *powers* rise!!! > >The size of that stadium is the sole reason for Manchester United's success >alone!!! In my opinion in which is absolutely deserving!!! One needs to remember that Manchester United were a well run club before the Glazers arrived and plunged the club in debt. They have consistantly been the club with the best attendances since world war 2. The Stadium was built with money that the club earned, not borrowed. The key to success is not having the biggest stadium but having the stadium filled every week regardless of success on the field. When they were relegated in the 70s they still had the best attendances while playing in the old division 2. Arsenal built a new stadium because they had to keep up with United in terms of income, in my opinion it was the only thing they could have done to stop being left behind. But they did borrow the money to build the stadium and the debt has been an issue on the playing side. To say that the debt has not been an issue is simply not true. You may wish to reflect on the facts that Arsenal may be sold to new owners in the near future and those new owners could very well do what the Glazers did to United and lump the debt back onto the club. United's earning power is currently beyond that of any other Premiership club. Manx seems to think that the club is in the same situation that Leeds was in, this isn't so because there are suitors lining up to buy the club should it ever be put up for sale again, mainly because of the vast earning capacity it brings. Don't misunderstand me, I hate what the Glazers ownership has done to the club, I was one of the thousands of shareholders that were forced to sell their shares when the Glazers took over, I have no doubt that in the future the Glazers will sell (and make a ton of money) which is why they bought the club in the first place. RED DEVIL
From: Google Beta User on 14 Jul 2010 14:42
On Jul 14, 12:47 pm, RED DEVIL <manutd1...(a)bellsouth.net> wrote: > >Abramovich/Mourinho arrived, and SAF hasn't gone anywhere. > > >It's not just a matter of money. > > It is when a club desperately needs players but can't go out and get > them because they are in so much debt You're saying they're barren trophy wise and you dont' see them getting more trophies because they're not spending, because they can't because they're in very bad financial shape. But even if they could and did spend, like I say clubs don't exist in a vacuum. So I wouldn't say that "money" is the primary issue. Or do you agree with Paul Tomkins and Benitez? Spurs now have two decent XIs, City will add 3 top 10 paid players to their team, and Ferguson is still around. League is getting tougher. You go for the win, you try your best, you enjoy the ride, but you can't base your entire barometer for succes *only* on trophies in this climate. |