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From: MH on 25 May 2010 12:39
milivella wrote:
> MH:
>
>> milivella wrote:
>>> Real's ones still seem the best ones to me, but I'd like to see what
>>> people think.
>> I suspect you may be right, but I may have missed some important ones
>> eg. for Barca.
>
> Yep.
>
> I guess that at some point we'll have to ask: what if a reject (i.e. a
> player that has been sold for a low price because perceived as a
> surplus) plays well *but not enough to be a starter in his former
> team*? Let's take e.g. Ronaldinho: his 2009-10 performances maybe make
> him worth more than 18 million euros (or maybe it's not true, and I've
> chosen the wrong example!), yet he wouldn't qualify as a starter (at
> least not a sure one) for Barca.

I left Ronaldinho and Deco out of my Barca list deliberately. Deco
because he is getting old and was not that important for Chelsea, and
Ronaldinho because he wanted to move as far as I can tell. Maybe
Ronaldinho does belong on the list. Certainly in 2008-2009 he would
probably have displaced Henry in the fairly regular starting lineup, and
this year he might have been ahead of Pedro. Hard to judge on this
one, as there was clearly a problem between him and Barca management by
that time.

Is he eligible in our lists? I.e. are
> we counting how much _money_ has a given club lost (having been paid
> less than the player's real value) or how much _talent_ has it lost
> (having sold a player that would now be useful, without receiving in
> exchange enough cash to pay another player of the same value)?

Those are indeed the key issues. Which is why both Chelsea and Real
giving up on Robben was a bad decision. Robben is younger, and arguably
better than Malouda so Chelsea in particular did not do well out of this.

Indeed
> I tend to see cases like Roberto Carlos at Inter and Henry at Juve as
> worse than many of the Spanish giants' rebates.
>
> (maybe one could go the other way round, starting from FIFA player of
> the year rankings and tracking back which teams have rejected those
> players)
>
>> Plus Barca seem to have bought more players that just never really
>> panned out at all than Real. Thinking of Overmars, Petit, Patrick
>> Anderson, Christanval, Reiziger etc etc.
>
> This too is an interesting list!
>
> --
> Cheers
> milivella
From: Sugano Masa on 25 May 2010 14:30
Sorry if the post is repeated. I'm still getting used to the
browser.

> I guess that at some point we'll have to ask: what if a reject (i.e. a
> player that has been sold for a low price because perceived as a
> surplus) plays well *but not enough to be a starter in his former
> team*? Let's take e.g. Ronaldinho: his 2009-10 performances maybe make
> him worth more than 18 million euros (or maybe it's not true, and I've
> chosen the wrong example!), yet he wouldn't qualify as a starter (at
> least not a sure one) for Barca. Is he eligible in our lists? I.e. are
> we counting how much _money_ has a given club lost (having been paid
> less than the player's real value) or how much _talent_ has it lost
> (having sold a player that would now be useful, without receiving in
> exchange enough cash to pay another player of the same value)? Indeed
> I tend to see cases like Roberto Carlos at Inter and Henry at Juve as
> worse than many of the Spanish giants' rebates.
>
> Cheers
> milivella

I recall bringing up the topic of Inter under Moratti selling badly
(as opposed to buying badly),
back when I still used to frequent RSS. Moratti at the beginning was
into buying exotic young
players from around the world, in classic Football Manager novice
style. A few were successes
(Zanetti, Cordoba, Recoba), a lot were rightly cast away (Rambert,
Fresi, West, Luciano, Ze
Elias, Ventola), but many as mentioned were given up prematurely.

Inter do not have this problem now. The relative decline in the
wealth of Milan and Juve allows
Moratti to snap up the mature 29-30 year olds in Seria A, and since
they are older, they don't
resurface elsewhere as "false positives."

Let me get back to Juve, though. Selling Henry was not that big a
mistake. Juve had Del Piero
in Trezeguet for most of the next decade, scoring 40 goals a season.
While Henry may have
been a better player than either, the marginal difference between
Henry and either Del Piero
and Trezeguet was not as great as people suggest. Nowhere near as
great as Roberto Carlos
compared with Pistone, Milanese, Georgatos, Gresko....

Come to think of it, I remember making a similar case about Juve
selling Vieri.

ciao,
massa
From: Bruce D. Scott on 26 May 2010 07:48
I just want to remind you people that Real MAdrid were TOTALLY
IRRELEVANT to last wekend's final. They were spectators like all the
other punters. Nothing more than that.

Of course Madrid gave us a steady diet of propaganda (all those street
banners) but that's what you had to expect.

Wankers.

At least the Prado was good. I spent much of Sunday there.
And CIEMAT gave me a series of good and useful meetings on Monday. I
have lots of good colleagues there.

--
ciao,
Bruce

drift wave turbulence: http://www.rzg.mpg.de/~bds/
From: Clarkoo on 26 May 2010 07:55
On May 26, 7:48 am, b...(a)ipp-garching.mpg.de (Bruce D. Scott) wrote:
> I just want to remind you people that Real MAdrid were TOTALLY
> IRRELEVANT to last wekend's final.  They were spectators like all the
> other punters.  Nothing more than that.
>
> Of course Madrid gave us a steady diet of propaganda (all those street
> banners) but that's what you had to expect.  
>
>     Wankers.
>
> At least the Prado was good.  I spent much of Sunday there.
> And CIEMAT gave me a series of good and useful meetings on Monday.  I
> have lots of good colleagues there.
>
> --
> ciao,
> Bruce
>
> drift wave turbulence:  http://www.rzg.mpg.de/~bds/

I think Real Madrid were as relevant to the final or even more than
Bayern Munich. At least our coach and several of our former players
showed up to the match and played in our stadium.
From: Google Beta User on 26 May 2010 09:38
On May 26, 7:55 am, Clarkoo <gabl...(a)yahoo.es> wrote:

> > drift wave turbulence:  http://www.rzg.mpg.de/~bds/
>
> I think Real Madrid were as relevant to the final or even more than
> Bayern Munich. At least our coach and several of our former players
> showed up to the match and played in our stadium.

Yes, the crowning achievement of your season undoubtedly.

If that's what Madrid have been reduced to feeling good about then
that's a good thing.


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