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From: milivella on 24 May 2010 02:11
Diabolik:

> Real rejects in this CL final?
>
> Cambiasso, Snejder, Robben and Eto'o! WOW, must be a record!

Relevant: "Top 10 Real Madrid Rejects Done Good":
http://www.goal.com/en/news/1716/champions-league/2010/05/23/1938502/champions-league-comment-top-10-real-madrid-rejects-done

--
Cheers
milivella
From: MH on 24 May 2010 13:04
milivella wrote:
> Diabolik:
>
>> Real rejects in this CL final?
>>
>> Cambiasso, Snejder, Robben and Eto'o! WOW, must be a record!
>
> Relevant: "Top 10 Real Madrid Rejects Done Good":
> http://www.goal.com/en/news/1716/champions-league/2010/05/23/1938502/champions-league-comment-top-10-real-madrid-rejects-done
>
> --
> Cheers
> milivella

The question is, how easy would it be to compile similar lists for other
big clubs, and how similar would they be in quality?

Second question is how to define reject. For the sake of argument,
let's call "reject" any player, still in his prime, deemed surplus to
requirements because a) the manager seemed to think he had, or was
bringing in, better players at that position or b) the manager
desperately wanted to get rid of him for other reasons. The player must
subsequently have done well at at least one other club, and preferably
maintained an international standard (call ups to national teams).
Players sold for large sums of money, especially because they WANTED to
move, (eg. Beckham, C. Ronaldo, Zidane) don't count.

Obviously, not everyone is going to agree on who is a reject, but here
are some from other clubs, off the top of my head:


Manchester United: Pique, Stam, Forlan, Kleberson, Howard, Butt, P.
Neville, Richardson (?), Saha, Van Nistelrooy.

Barcelona: Riquelme, Saviola, Quaresma, Simao, Fabregas, Rustu, van
Bommel, Eto'o, Giuly, Luis Garcia

Chelsea: Robben, Sean Wright Phillips, Johnson, Gallas, Duff, Parker,
Sidwell, Bridge,

Someone else can try the richer Italians teams.
From: milivella on 24 May 2010 19:51
MH:

> milivella wrote:
> > Diabolik:
>
> >> Real rejects in this CL final?
>
> >> Cambiasso, Snejder, Robben and Eto'o! WOW, must be a record!
>
> > Relevant: "Top 10 Real Madrid Rejects Done Good":
> >http://www.goal.com/en/news/1716/champions-league/2010/05/23/1938502/...
>
> > --
> > Cheers
> > milivella
>
> The question is, how easy would it be to compile similar lists for other
> big clubs, and how similar would they be in quality?
>
> Second question is how to define reject. For the sake of argument,
> let's call "reject" any player, still in his prime, deemed surplus to
> requirements because a) the manager seemed to think he had, or was
> bringing in, better players at that position or b) the manager
> desperately wanted to get rid of him for other reasons. The player must
> subsequently have done well at at least one other club, and preferably
> maintained an international standard (call ups to national teams).
> Players sold for large sums of money, especially because they WANTED to
> move, (eg. Beckham, C. Ronaldo, Zidane) don't count.

They look like the rules for a sophisticated clash of ex-players!

> Obviously, not everyone is going to agree on who is a reject

But your definition (that I like) is pretty strict.

> but here
> are some from other clubs, off the top of my head:

Real's ones still seem the best ones to me, but I'd like to see what
people think.

> Someone else can try the richer Italians teams.

Tom compiled a good list. Of course Inter had a lot of false negatives
in Moratti years (Roberto Carlos!).

--
Cheers
milivella
From: MH on 24 May 2010 21:37
milivella wrote:
> MH:
>
>> milivella wrote:
>>> Diabolik:
>>>> Real rejects in this CL final?
>>>> Cambiasso, Snejder, Robben and Eto'o! WOW, must be a record!
>>> Relevant: "Top 10 Real Madrid Rejects Done Good":
>>> http://www.goal.com/en/news/1716/champions-league/2010/05/23/1938502/...
>>> --
>>> Cheers
>>> milivella
>> The question is, how easy would it be to compile similar lists for other
>> big clubs, and how similar would they be in quality?
>>
>> Second question is how to define reject. For the sake of argument,
>> let's call "reject" any player, still in his prime, deemed surplus to
>> requirements because a) the manager seemed to think he had, or was
>> bringing in, better players at that position or b) the manager
>> desperately wanted to get rid of him for other reasons. The player must
>> subsequently have done well at at least one other club, and preferably
>> maintained an international standard (call ups to national teams).
>> Players sold for large sums of money, especially because they WANTED to
>> move, (eg. Beckham, C. Ronaldo, Zidane) don't count.
>
> They look like the rules for a sophisticated clash of ex-players!
>
>> Obviously, not everyone is going to agree on who is a reject
>
> But your definition (that I like) is pretty strict.
>
>> but here
>> are some from other clubs, off the top of my head:
>
> Real's ones still seem the best ones to me, but I'd like to see what
> people think.
>

I suspect you may be right, but I may have missed some important ones
eg. for Barca.


Plus Barca seem to have bought more players that just never really
panned out at all than Real. Thinking of Overmars, Petit, Patrick
Anderson, Christanval, Reiziger etc etc.

When this has happened at Real, it has more often than not been injury
related (Woodgate, Metzelder).


>> Someone else can try the richer Italians teams.
>
> Tom compiled a good list. Of course Inter had a lot of false negatives
> in Moratti years (Roberto Carlos!).
>
> --
> Cheers
> milivella
From: milivella on 24 May 2010 22:23
MH:

> milivella wrote:
> > Real's ones still seem the best ones to me, but I'd like to see what
> > people think.
>
> I suspect you may be right, but I may have missed some important ones
> eg. for Barca.

Yep.

I guess that at some point we'll have to ask: what if a reject (i.e. a
player that has been sold for a low price because perceived as a
surplus) plays well *but not enough to be a starter in his former
team*? Let's take e.g. Ronaldinho: his 2009-10 performances maybe make
him worth more than 18 million euros (or maybe it's not true, and I've
chosen the wrong example!), yet he wouldn't qualify as a starter (at
least not a sure one) for Barca. Is he eligible in our lists? I.e. are
we counting how much _money_ has a given club lost (having been paid
less than the player's real value) or how much _talent_ has it lost
(having sold a player that would now be useful, without receiving in
exchange enough cash to pay another player of the same value)? Indeed
I tend to see cases like Roberto Carlos at Inter and Henry at Juve as
worse than many of the Spanish giants' rebates.

(maybe one could go the other way round, starting from FIFA player of
the year rankings and tracking back which teams have rejected those
players)

> Plus Barca seem to have bought more players that just never really
> panned out at all than Real. Thinking of Overmars, Petit, Patrick
> Anderson, Christanval, Reiziger etc etc.

This too is an interesting list!

--
Cheers
milivella
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