Diving
in [World Football]
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From: JGN on 21 Oct 2009 14:38 On Oct 19, 6:37 pm, "DavidW" <n...(a)email.provided> wrote: > Futbolmetrix wrote: > > "DavidW" <n...(a)email.provided> wrote in message > >news:XuSBm.10142$cL1.122(a)newsfe20.iad... > > >> So you approve of diving, or are you actually claiming that all those > >> histrionics we see are genuine pain? > > > Why do you call that "diving?" The behavior described in the original > > article has got nothing to do with "diving". > > Yes, it does. Diving is just the most extreme form of the subject of the > article. You are in the box and you get a little tap and you go down like your > leg is broken. > > > If you want to have a > > debate about this, at the very least you should start by using clear > > definitions of what it is that bothers you, not throwing everything > > under the blanket definition of "diving". > > Diving is the biggest blight on the game and if players had the attitude that > he's calling for - stay on your feet if you possibly can - they wouldn't do it. > It was just the subject line and it is directly related to the article. I agree here. Ever notice that people usually fall down a lot less when there isn't a ref? The attitude of flopping (not diving, which I understand as completely simulating a foul, but going down and rolling in agonizing pain in the pitch on every foul) at the slightest touch is my only gripe about the sport. The only time I have rolled in agonizing pain in the pitch was when I tore my ACL. I just wish pro players would: 1.- try not to fall down at the slightest touch. 2.- get up as soon as they get their wind back. Ref already awarded the foul, no need for extra theatrics. 3.- YOU GOT HIT IN THE LEG, STOP CLUTCHING YOUR FACE LIKE YOU'RE CRYING!
From: DavidW on 21 Oct 2009 17:33 Abubakr wrote: > On 21 Oct, 09:39, "DavidW" <n...(a)email.provided> wrote: >> Enzo wrote: >>> On Oct 20, 4:41 am, "DavidW" <n...(a)email.provided> wrote: >>>> Enzo wrote: >>>>> On Oct 19, 9:45 pm, "DavidW" <n...(a)email.provided> wrote: >>>>>> Enzo wrote: >>>>>>> On Oct 17, 11:47 am, "ken.over...(a)gmail.com" >>>>>>> <ken.over...(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> On Oct 16, 10:35 am, MH <nos...(a)ucalgary.ca> wrote: >> >>>>>>>>> From a Canadian perspective I didn't mind this article at all. >>>>>>>>> He puts his finger on a problem people who are used to hockey >>>>>>>>> and gridiron football can identify with, and what he describes >>>>>>>>> is a real reflection of a prevalent attitude. >> >>>>>>>> I don't mind that position, but he offers nothing new as far >>>>>>>> as I can see, certainly nothing remotely like a solution. As >>>>>>>> far as I can see his main point is "We are tougher and morally >>>>>>>> superior than the rest of the world." >> >>>>>>> Yes, that is his main point. As 2 others have said, >> >>>>>>> 1. he is just out to bash because of insecurity >> >>>>>> Rubbish. Having read his articles over many years it's obvious >>>>>> that he's not like that. On what basis do you dismiss the >>>>>> possibility that he's sincere? >> >>>>>>> 2. he has never played the game >> >>>>>>> I dont think this thread should be so long. He is trolling. >> >>>>>> And on what basis do you come to that conclusion? >> >>>>> Simple. He brings up IVA Richards standing up to bouncers. >>>>> Heck, I can bring up Sunil Gavaskar wearing a skull cap >>>>> and facing the Windies quartet in their prime! But whats >>>>> the eff'ing point? >> >>>> If you can't see his very simple point already then there's little >>>> I can do. >> >>>>> Let me state a simple thing. Let Sunil Gavaskar or IVA Richards >>>>> don a pair of boots and play for 5-10 minutes. Then, suddenly, >>>>> Gavaskar, who is driving the midfield, threads a long ball on >>>>> the flank where Marshall, who is in charge of the flying winger >>>>> Richards, has strayed up the pitch a bit too much. Richards >>>>> goes flying down the wing, as he is so good at, Marshall is >>>>> out of position, but Colin Croft comes lunging in from his >>>>> position in defensive midfield and deftly slips IVA's heels. >>>>> Foul, freekick. >> >>>>> Wonder how long IVA will stay down. DavidW probably didnt >>>>> have his heel clipped while on a flat run. >> >>>> What's your eff'ing point? He is contrasting Richards getting hit >>>> on the head by a cricket ball with soccer players writhing around >>>> from _trivial_ knocks. He is not claiming that _all_ knocks in >>>> soccer are trivial or that players can always stay on their feet >>>> and continue no matter what happens. Your post is completely >>>> irrelevant to his article. >> >>> Ok, I will make it simpler. >>> Apples and oranges, my friend. Apples and oranges. >>> And a propensity on the part of certain journos of other codes >>> of football to talk about "soccer" without knowing the first >>> thing about it. It is a common failing. >> >>> Rarely do you see the reverse ( we can all laugh at the >>> million 5 minute breaks, tea and coffee which is part and >>> parcel of many other sports ). >> >> Anyone would think that diving after minimal contact is not a common >> occurrence in soccer. > > Here's a thought: don't watch it and don't write about it. Why? It's a good game and I want to watch it. It just needs an attitude change by the players and it will be even better. > p.s. anyone would think not walking when you've hit the ball is not a > common occurrence in cricket... It is a common occurrence and I don't object to it. I didn't walk when I was caught behind. But I don't know what this has to do with diving/melodramatic response to injury.
From: Abubakr on 22 Oct 2009 01:04 On 22 Oct, 08:33, "DavidW" <n...(a)email.provided> wrote: > Abubakr wrote: > > On 21 Oct, 09:39, "DavidW" <n...(a)email.provided> wrote: > >> Enzo wrote: > >>> On Oct 20, 4:41 am, "DavidW" <n...(a)email.provided> wrote: > >>>> Enzo wrote: > >>>>> On Oct 19, 9:45 pm, "DavidW" <n...(a)email.provided> wrote: > >>>>>> Enzo wrote: > >>>>>>> On Oct 17, 11:47 am, "ken.over...(a)gmail.com" > >>>>>>> <ken.over...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >>>>>>>> On Oct 16, 10:35 am, MH <nos...(a)ucalgary.ca> wrote: > > >>>>>>>>> From a Canadian perspective I didn't mind this article at all. > >>>>>>>>> He puts his finger on a problem people who are used to hockey > >>>>>>>>> and gridiron football can identify with, and what he describes > >>>>>>>>> is a real reflection of a prevalent attitude. > > >>>>>>>> I don't mind that position, but he offers nothing new as far > >>>>>>>> as I can see, certainly nothing remotely like a solution. As > >>>>>>>> far as I can see his main point is "We are tougher and morally > >>>>>>>> superior than the rest of the world." > > >>>>>>> Yes, that is his main point. As 2 others have said, > > >>>>>>> 1. he is just out to bash because of insecurity > > >>>>>> Rubbish. Having read his articles over many years it's obvious > >>>>>> that he's not like that. On what basis do you dismiss the > >>>>>> possibility that he's sincere? > > >>>>>>> 2. he has never played the game > > >>>>>>> I dont think this thread should be so long. He is trolling. > > >>>>>> And on what basis do you come to that conclusion? > > >>>>> Simple. He brings up IVA Richards standing up to bouncers. > >>>>> Heck, I can bring up Sunil Gavaskar wearing a skull cap > >>>>> and facing the Windies quartet in their prime! But whats > >>>>> the eff'ing point? > > >>>> If you can't see his very simple point already then there's little > >>>> I can do. > > >>>>> Let me state a simple thing. Let Sunil Gavaskar or IVA Richards > >>>>> don a pair of boots and play for 5-10 minutes. Then, suddenly, > >>>>> Gavaskar, who is driving the midfield, threads a long ball on > >>>>> the flank where Marshall, who is in charge of the flying winger > >>>>> Richards, has strayed up the pitch a bit too much. Richards > >>>>> goes flying down the wing, as he is so good at, Marshall is > >>>>> out of position, but Colin Croft comes lunging in from his > >>>>> position in defensive midfield and deftly slips IVA's heels. > >>>>> Foul, freekick. > > >>>>> Wonder how long IVA will stay down. DavidW probably didnt > >>>>> have his heel clipped while on a flat run. > > >>>> What's your eff'ing point? He is contrasting Richards getting hit > >>>> on the head by a cricket ball with soccer players writhing around > >>>> from _trivial_ knocks. He is not claiming that _all_ knocks in > >>>> soccer are trivial or that players can always stay on their feet > >>>> and continue no matter what happens. Your post is completely > >>>> irrelevant to his article. > > >>> Ok, I will make it simpler. > >>> Apples and oranges, my friend. Apples and oranges. > >>> And a propensity on the part of certain journos of other codes > >>> of football to talk about "soccer" without knowing the first > >>> thing about it. It is a common failing. > > >>> Rarely do you see the reverse ( we can all laugh at the > >>> million 5 minute breaks, tea and coffee which is part and > >>> parcel of many other sports ). > > >> Anyone would think that diving after minimal contact is not a common > >> occurrence in soccer. > > > Here's a thought: don't watch it and don't write about it. > > Why? It's a good game and I want to watch it. It just needs an attitude change > by the players and it will be even better. It's not going to happen as long as the game remains highly paid and professional. > > p.s. anyone would think not walking when you've hit the ball is not a > > common occurrence in cricket... > > It is a common occurrence and I don't object to it. I didn't walk when I was > caught behind. But I don't know what this has to do with diving/melodramatic > response to injury. LOL. It amounts to cheating, just like diving to get a decision in your favour. You know the bowler has got you out but because the umpire has missed it, you stay on the field. You want football players to be honest and play clean but not cricketers?
From: Enzo on 22 Oct 2009 02:32 On Oct 22, 5:04 am, Abubakr <deltara...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On 22 Oct, 08:33, "DavidW" <n...(a)email.provided> wrote: > > > > > > > Abubakr wrote: > > > On 21 Oct, 09:39, "DavidW" <n...(a)email.provided> wrote: > > >> Enzo wrote: > > >>> On Oct 20, 4:41 am, "DavidW" <n...(a)email.provided> wrote: > > >>>> Enzo wrote: > > >>>>> On Oct 19, 9:45 pm, "DavidW" <n...(a)email.provided> wrote: > > >>>>>> Enzo wrote: > > >>>>>>> On Oct 17, 11:47 am, "ken.over...(a)gmail.com" > > >>>>>>> <ken.over...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > >>>>>>>> On Oct 16, 10:35 am, MH <nos...(a)ucalgary.ca> wrote: > > > >>>>>>>>> From a Canadian perspective I didn't mind this article at all.. > > >>>>>>>>> He puts his finger on a problem people who are used to hockey > > >>>>>>>>> and gridiron football can identify with, and what he describes > > >>>>>>>>> is a real reflection of a prevalent attitude. > > > >>>>>>>> I don't mind that position, but he offers nothing new as far > > >>>>>>>> as I can see, certainly nothing remotely like a solution. As > > >>>>>>>> far as I can see his main point is "We are tougher and morally > > >>>>>>>> superior than the rest of the world." > > > >>>>>>> Yes, that is his main point. As 2 others have said, > > > >>>>>>> 1. he is just out to bash because of insecurity > > > >>>>>> Rubbish. Having read his articles over many years it's obvious > > >>>>>> that he's not like that. On what basis do you dismiss the > > >>>>>> possibility that he's sincere? > > > >>>>>>> 2. he has never played the game > > > >>>>>>> I dont think this thread should be so long. He is trolling. > > > >>>>>> And on what basis do you come to that conclusion? > > > >>>>> Simple. He brings up IVA Richards standing up to bouncers. > > >>>>> Heck, I can bring up Sunil Gavaskar wearing a skull cap > > >>>>> and facing the Windies quartet in their prime! But whats > > >>>>> the eff'ing point? > > > >>>> If you can't see his very simple point already then there's little > > >>>> I can do. > > > >>>>> Let me state a simple thing. Let Sunil Gavaskar or IVA Richards > > >>>>> don a pair of boots and play for 5-10 minutes. Then, suddenly, > > >>>>> Gavaskar, who is driving the midfield, threads a long ball on > > >>>>> the flank where Marshall, who is in charge of the flying winger > > >>>>> Richards, has strayed up the pitch a bit too much. Richards > > >>>>> goes flying down the wing, as he is so good at, Marshall is > > >>>>> out of position, but Colin Croft comes lunging in from his > > >>>>> position in defensive midfield and deftly slips IVA's heels. > > >>>>> Foul, freekick. > > > >>>>> Wonder how long IVA will stay down. DavidW probably didnt > > >>>>> have his heel clipped while on a flat run. > > > >>>> What's your eff'ing point? He is contrasting Richards getting hit > > >>>> on the head by a cricket ball with soccer players writhing around > > >>>> from _trivial_ knocks. He is not claiming that _all_ knocks in > > >>>> soccer are trivial or that players can always stay on their feet > > >>>> and continue no matter what happens. Your post is completely > > >>>> irrelevant to his article. > > > >>> Ok, I will make it simpler. > > >>> Apples and oranges, my friend. Apples and oranges. > > >>> And a propensity on the part of certain journos of other codes > > >>> of football to talk about "soccer" without knowing the first > > >>> thing about it. It is a common failing. > > > >>> Rarely do you see the reverse ( we can all laugh at the > > >>> million 5 minute breaks, tea and coffee which is part and > > >>> parcel of many other sports ). > > > >> Anyone would think that diving after minimal contact is not a common > > >> occurrence in soccer. > > > > Here's a thought: don't watch it and don't write about it. > > > Why? It's a good game and I want to watch it. It just needs an attitude change > > by the players and it will be even better. > > It's not going to happen as long as the game remains highly paid and > professional. > > > > p.s. anyone would think not walking when you've hit the ball is not a > > > common occurrence in cricket... > > > It is a common occurrence and I don't object to it. I didn't walk when I was > > caught behind. But I don't know what this has to do with diving/melodramatic > > response to injury. > > LOL. It amounts to cheating, just like diving to get a decision in > your favour. You know the bowler has got you out but because the > umpire has missed it, you stay on the field. You want football players > to be honest and play clean but not cricketers?- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Not to mention that paragon of sporting virtue, Ricky Ponting, who does not blink when claiming one of those scoop it off the grass slip catches.
From: DavidW on 22 Oct 2009 17:15
Abubakr wrote: > On 22 Oct, 08:33, "DavidW" <n...(a)email.provided> wrote: >> Abubakr wrote: >>> On 21 Oct, 09:39, "DavidW" <n...(a)email.provided> wrote: >>>> Enzo wrote: >>>>> On Oct 20, 4:41 am, "DavidW" <n...(a)email.provided> wrote: >>>>>> Enzo wrote: >>>>>>> On Oct 19, 9:45 pm, "DavidW" <n...(a)email.provided> wrote: >>>>>>>> Enzo wrote: >>>>>>>>> On Oct 17, 11:47 am, "ken.over...(a)gmail.com" >>>>>>>>> <ken.over...(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> On Oct 16, 10:35 am, MH <nos...(a)ucalgary.ca> wrote: >> >>>>>>>>>>> From a Canadian perspective I didn't mind this article at >>>>>>>>>>> all. He puts his finger on a problem people who are used to >>>>>>>>>>> hockey and gridiron football can identify with, and what he >>>>>>>>>>> describes is a real reflection of a prevalent attitude. >> >>>>>>>>>> I don't mind that position, but he offers nothing new as far >>>>>>>>>> as I can see, certainly nothing remotely like a solution. As >>>>>>>>>> far as I can see his main point is "We are tougher and >>>>>>>>>> morally superior than the rest of the world." >> >>>>>>>>> Yes, that is his main point. As 2 others have said, >> >>>>>>>>> 1. he is just out to bash because of insecurity >> >>>>>>>> Rubbish. Having read his articles over many years it's obvious >>>>>>>> that he's not like that. On what basis do you dismiss the >>>>>>>> possibility that he's sincere? >> >>>>>>>>> 2. he has never played the game >> >>>>>>>>> I dont think this thread should be so long. He is trolling. >> >>>>>>>> And on what basis do you come to that conclusion? >> >>>>>>> Simple. He brings up IVA Richards standing up to bouncers. >>>>>>> Heck, I can bring up Sunil Gavaskar wearing a skull cap >>>>>>> and facing the Windies quartet in their prime! But whats >>>>>>> the eff'ing point? >> >>>>>> If you can't see his very simple point already then there's >>>>>> little I can do. >> >>>>>>> Let me state a simple thing. Let Sunil Gavaskar or IVA Richards >>>>>>> don a pair of boots and play for 5-10 minutes. Then, suddenly, >>>>>>> Gavaskar, who is driving the midfield, threads a long ball on >>>>>>> the flank where Marshall, who is in charge of the flying winger >>>>>>> Richards, has strayed up the pitch a bit too much. Richards >>>>>>> goes flying down the wing, as he is so good at, Marshall is >>>>>>> out of position, but Colin Croft comes lunging in from his >>>>>>> position in defensive midfield and deftly slips IVA's heels. >>>>>>> Foul, freekick. >> >>>>>>> Wonder how long IVA will stay down. DavidW probably didnt >>>>>>> have his heel clipped while on a flat run. >> >>>>>> What's your eff'ing point? He is contrasting Richards getting hit >>>>>> on the head by a cricket ball with soccer players writhing around >>>>>> from _trivial_ knocks. He is not claiming that _all_ knocks in >>>>>> soccer are trivial or that players can always stay on their feet >>>>>> and continue no matter what happens. Your post is completely >>>>>> irrelevant to his article. >> >>>>> Ok, I will make it simpler. >>>>> Apples and oranges, my friend. Apples and oranges. >>>>> And a propensity on the part of certain journos of other codes >>>>> of football to talk about "soccer" without knowing the first >>>>> thing about it. It is a common failing. >> >>>>> Rarely do you see the reverse ( we can all laugh at the >>>>> million 5 minute breaks, tea and coffee which is part and >>>>> parcel of many other sports ). >> >>>> Anyone would think that diving after minimal contact is not a >>>> common occurrence in soccer. >> >>> Here's a thought: don't watch it and don't write about it. >> >> Why? It's a good game and I want to watch it. It just needs an >> attitude change by the players and it will be even better. > > It's not going to happen as long as the game remains highly paid and > professional. > >>> p.s. anyone would think not walking when you've hit the ball is not >>> a common occurrence in cricket... >> >> It is a common occurrence and I don't object to it. I didn't walk >> when I was caught behind. But I don't know what this has to do with >> diving/melodramatic response to injury. > > LOL. It amounts to cheating, just like diving to get a decision in > your favour. Rubbish. If you are told to go when you didn't hit it you have no choice but to go. So you want players to accept those bad decisions _and_ walk off without being told to when they do hit it. The best and fairest course is to allow the umpire to make all the decisions because that's your only chance to have the bad and fortunate decisions balancing each other at the end of your career. > You know the bowler has got you out but because the > umpire has missed it, you stay on the field. You want football players > to be honest and play clean but not cricketers? The article doesn't focus on honesty and neither have I. It's about wimpy, weak and whiny reaction to injury. |