From: Jellore on 17 Oct 2009 00:03 On Oct 17, 1:58 pm, Abubakr <deltara...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Oct 17, 1:35 am, MH <nos...(a)ucalgary.ca> wrote: > > > > > > > Futbolmetrix wrote: > > > "DavidW" <n...(a)email.provided> wrote in message > > >news:XuSBm.10142$cL1.122(a)newsfe20.iad... > > > >>So you approve of diving, or are you actually claiming that all those > > >>histrionics we see are genuine pain? > > > > Why do you call that "diving?" The behavior described in the original > > > article has got nothing to do with "diving". If you want to have a debate > > > about this, at the very least you should start by using clear definitions of > > > what it is that bothers you, not throwing everything under the blanket > > > definition of "diving". > > > > Diving != Faking injury != embellishing contact != seeking contact != other > > > forms of unsportsmanlike behavior/gamesmanship. > > > All very true. What the author of the article is complaining about comes > > under some categories of "simulation" , I would suggest. > > > Partly faking (or exaggerating the magnitude of) injuries. This has two > > main goals 1) delaying the game and opponents attacks' and 2) convincing > > the ref to give a foul and maybe a card. > > > Partly embellishing contact. Again to influence the ref. > > > From a Canadian perspective I didn't mind this article at all. He puts > > his finger on a problem people who are used to hockey and gridiron > > football can identify with, and what he describes is a real reflection > > of a prevalent attitude. > > > You don't need to agree with him, but calling him an idiot (as some here > > have) is unreasonable, because he is describing a legitimate and > > widespread point of view in some countries where soccer is not the major > > sport. He is also doing it while avoiding some of the excesses of > > similar articles written by reporters among our neighbours to the south > > - who always manage to suggest that soccer is an effete sport for the > > effeminate etc. > > > > D > > You are not familiar with the context the likes of this Gaum write in. > There's an all out media war by the other codes to vilify football in > this country. In Melbourne it's the Aussie Rules establishment and in > NSW and Queensland we have the rugby heads who never tire of telling > whoever reads their articles how football is 'un-Australian'. > > They are jealous and protecting their interests through propaganda. > They know that in the heart of their next season the focus of the > nation will be on the NT in South Africa and football's growing > popularity is a major threat to their codes' hegemony. > > But we don't care to turn people to our game. If they choose to follow > it, they choose to follow it on its own terms, not on Rugby's, Aussie > Rule's or cricket's. And if they don't find something appealing in our > game, they are quite welcome to keep throwing their eggballs around > till kingdom come. Australia is in a unique position really, where four "football" codes are all wresting for national attention. The boys from the NRL; ARU and AFL are worried.
From: Mango on 17 Oct 2009 04:13 "Enzo" <s_debgupta(a)yahoo.com> wrote in message news:92dd47a4-2a4a-44ab-b2ce-d3d525f548f6(a)t11g2000prh.googlegroups.com... On Oct 16, 3:48 am, "DavidW" <n...(a)email.provided> wrote: >I wish to add one thing to what some others have said. > >Part of the reason players go down a lot in football is that >it is a ***extremely*** tiring sport. I dont know much about >Aussie Rules, but I do know plenty about cricket. Cricket >is a very placid game indeed, especially if you are batting. >Very placid. The difference with football is like chalk and cheese. Cricket at its highest level is like a 5 day penalty shootout. It's not hugely demanding physically (unless you are a fast bowler and even then you get rests) but the mental pressure is immense. At its lowest levels its a social day out.
From: Enzo on 17 Oct 2009 04:41 On Oct 17, 8:13 am, "Mango" <Fakem...(a)wherever.com> wrote: > "Enzo" <s_debgu...(a)yahoo.com> wrote in message > > news:92dd47a4-2a4a-44ab-b2ce-d3d525f548f6(a)t11g2000prh.googlegroups.com... > On Oct 16, 3:48 am, "DavidW" <n...(a)email.provided> wrote: > > >I wish to add one thing to what some others have said. > > >Part of the reason players go down a lot in football is that > >it is a ***extremely*** tiring sport. I dont know much about > >Aussie Rules, but I do know plenty about cricket. Cricket > >is a very placid game indeed, especially if you are batting. > >Very placid. The difference with football is like chalk and cheese. > > Cricket at its highest level is like a 5 day penalty shootout. Or a 3-hour gun battle, with the advent of 20-20. But the people are standing and shooting, so to speak. There is no comparison with the impact on the muscles, lungs and bones that even 15 minutes of top-level football can have.
From: ken.overton on 17 Oct 2009 07:47 On Oct 16, 10:35 am, MH <nos...(a)ucalgary.ca> wrote: > > From a Canadian perspective I didn't mind this article at all. He puts > his finger on a problem people who are used to hockey and gridiron > football can identify with, and what he describes is a real reflection > of a prevalent attitude. I don't mind that position, but he offers nothing new as far as I can see, certainly nothing remotely like a solution. As far as I can see his main point is "We are tougher and morally superior than the rest of the world."
From: Diabolik on 17 Oct 2009 08:56
"Jellore" <jellore(a)bigpond.com> wrote in message news:4a9e96f9-6b89-42fe-b425-4bbe9393969e(a)x25g2000prf.googlegroups.com... On Oct 17, 12:37 am, "Diabolik" <Diabo...(a)noemail.com> wrote: > "DavidW" <n...(a)email.provided> wrote in message > > news:h2SBm.69937$bP1.17482(a)newsfe24.iad... > > > > > > > Good article by an Australian sports writer (whose background is not in > > soccer). All teams could take note, not just Australia. > > >http://www.theage.com.au/news/sport/soccer/time-to-vote-with-the-feet... > > > Time to vote with the feet - and keep them > > Greg Baum > > 16 October 2009 > > > ONE DAY at the MCG, many years ago, the great West Indian Viv Richards > > hooked at a bouncer from Australia's Rodney Hogg, missed and was struck > > a > > fearful-looking blow to the head. It was unprotected, except for a cloth > > cap. The crowd gasped. Richards did not flinch, did not reach for the > > traumatised spot, did not even shake his head, but took block again. The > > next ball, another bouncer, he clouted for six. > > > That was chalk. Cheese was Wednesday night's soccer international at > > Etihad Stadium, in which - all too familiarly - a physically affronted > > player would spin, crumple and then lie prone, as if picked off from the > > grassy mound, bringing play to a screeching halt. Mostly, long before > > the > > ambulance and the police escort could be arranged, he would make a > > Lazarus-like recovery. > > > The Omanis were more prone, so to speak, provoking an apparently > > intemperate outburst from Australian team manager Garry Moretti to Oman > > coach Claude Le Roy at half-time. The trouble for Moretti was that > > Australia was standing not so much on high moral ground as thin ice. > > When > > necessary, Australians can roll, twist and writhe as well as any other. > > At > > one point, Josh Kennedy needed only a cross to turn Etihad Stadium into > > Calvary at sunset. > > > Australians admired Richards, and were inspired by him, too. In most > > sporting endeavours, it is something of a proud Australian tradition not > > to betray even acute pain. A batsman, when struck, will not rub the sore > > spot. A heavily tackled footballer will gasp for a moment, then > > stoically > > carry on. A tennis player will not call for the trainer until his leg > > begins to detach. > > > The thinking is not necessarily profound. It's about machismo, about the > > mental battle, about projecting a sense of indestructibility, about not > > admitting to your opponent that he has had even a moral victory. It is > > probably more reckless than it is wise. But it is us. > > > And it is why many Australians who have warmed to soccer in this, its > > first golden age in this country, still are bemused by - even > > contemptuous > > of - the apparent frailty of so many soccer players, including > > Socceroos. > > They see it as antithetical to their idea of sport. > > > They cannot dispel the suspicion that some of these apparent axe murders > > are no more than elaborate but tired tactical ploys, meant either to > > slow > > down the game or draw a sanction for an opponent. And they cannot help > > but > > think that all these boys crying wolf cruel it for the player who is > > genuinely injured. > > > Here, the Socceroos have the chance to make a virtue of a vice. They > > could > > establish themselves as the team that plays the game, but not games. > > They > > could as a matter of policy make light of glancing slights and blows. > > They > > could, uniquely among soccer-playing nations, resolve to get on with the > > game. > > > It would not be easy. No one doubts that an ankle clipped at pace hurts > > as > > if stabbed. No one doubts that sliding studs can inflict eye-watering > > pain. No one doubts a rough body check can have the effect of a rugby > > tackle. > > > What they do doubt is that minutes later, the pain is still so > > unrelievedly excruciating that the victim is lying inert on the turf, > > hair > > arranged just so, or else clutching for several body parts at once, as > > if > > unable to remember which was supposed nearly to have been severed, > > meantime wincing dramatically, but with a half-open eye cocked towards > > the > > referee to make sure that he is watching. > > > What they do doubt is that some of these clashes hurt any more than, for > > instance, the ball does when a defender blocks a thumping shot at close > > range, or heads it out of the skies. On Wednesday night, Omani > > goalkeeper > > Ali Al Habsi made a save when the ball struck him in the head. Though he > > must have seen stars, he did not even wince, let alone collapse for the > > camera; there was still a goal to be saved. > > > Critics doubtlessly will say that I do not understand the game. They > > ought > > to consider this: much as the Socceroos are striving to impress the > > world, > > they are still tasked with trying to impress Australia. Much ground has > > been gained, but much has still to be made; the barely passable crowd on > > Wednesday night says as much. Australia is an earnest and honest team, > > but > > despite the yellow shirts, it is not like watching Brazil, not yet. > > > It is not enough to say Australia must accustom itself to the world > > game; > > the world game must also adapt to Australia. It must be a game with > > which > > all Australian can identify. It has shown a willingness already, for > > instance, in the format of the A-League, which meshes league and > > knock-out > > competitions in a way would be a curio elsewhere in the world, but makes > > sense here. > > > Mostly, Australians prefer their sporting representatives to be hard, > > robust, impervious to pain. The Socceroos have a chance to take a > > stance. > > Upright. > > This idot and his like think they understand football but they don't. > Football don't need these wankers, or their stupid comments. They want to > be > part of this sport because they know it's going to be BIG, but they will > never understand football. > > The ref knows what's going on in football and acting, something this > stupid > journalist didn't even mention. Yeah the players act, but who cares, > everyone knows it's part of the game and see beyond it. > > The difference is mainly cultural, and it's not about cheating. > > Australians have rugby league and AFL as a national sport and that says > everything really. These are brain dead idiots rumbling each other, they > don't care if they break bones and they are ridiculous to watch, something > I > would > never wish my children to play. These sports are those of cavemen, not > civilised people, yet they have the hide to criticise football. Give me a > break. > But Rugby League is not the national sport of Australia. It is only > played with any real intent in NSW and Qld. AFL is the number one > sport in WA; SA and Vic...the NT too. > I have no great love for these sports either, however don't stoop to > the level of Baum and denigrate them. How can you not stoop to his level, and anyone who thinks like him, which is a LOT of people? They take the morally higher ground, which is a joke, given that Rugby and AFL players are always in the news for raping women, bashing girls and behaving badly in general. I have zero tollerance for these people. |