From: Jellore on 17 Oct 2009 00:03
On Oct 17, 1:58 pm, Abubakr <deltara...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> On Oct 17, 1:35 am, MH <nos...(a)ucalgary.ca> wrote:
> > Futbolmetrix wrote:
> > > "DavidW" <n...(a)email.provided> wrote in message
> > >news:XuSBm.10142$cL1.122(a)newsfe20.iad...
> > >>So you approve of diving, or are you actually claiming that all those
> > >>histrionics we see are genuine pain?
> > > Why do you call that "diving?" The behavior described in the original
> > > article has got nothing to do with "diving". If you want to have a debate
> > > about this, at the very least you should start by using clear definitions of
> > > what it is that bothers you, not throwing everything under the blanket
> > > definition of "diving".
> > > Diving != Faking injury != embellishing contact != seeking contact != other
> > > forms of unsportsmanlike behavior/gamesmanship.
> > All very true. What the author of the article is complaining about comes
> > under some categories of "simulation" , I would suggest.
> > Partly faking (or exaggerating the magnitude of) injuries. This has two
> > main goals 1) delaying the game and opponents attacks' and 2) convincing
> > the ref to give a foul and maybe a card.
> > Partly embellishing contact. Again to influence the ref.
> > From a Canadian perspective I didn't mind this article at all. He puts
> > his finger on a problem people who are used to hockey and gridiron
> > football can identify with, and what he describes is a real reflection
> > of a prevalent attitude.
> > You don't need to agree with him, but calling him an idiot (as some here
> > have) is unreasonable, because he is describing a legitimate and
> > widespread point of view in some countries where soccer is not the major
> > sport. He is also doing it while avoiding some of the excesses of
> > similar articles written by reporters among our neighbours to the south
> > - who always manage to suggest that soccer is an effete sport for the
> > effeminate etc.
> > > D
> You are not familiar with the context the likes of this Gaum write in.
> There's an all out media war by the other codes to vilify football in
> this country. In Melbourne it's the Aussie Rules establishment and in
> NSW and Queensland we have the rugby heads who never tire of telling
> whoever reads their articles how football is 'un-Australian'.
> They are jealous and protecting their interests through propaganda.
> They know that in the heart of their next season the focus of the
> nation will be on the NT in South Africa and football's growing
> popularity is a major threat to their codes' hegemony.
> But we don't care to turn people to our game. If they choose to follow
> it, they choose to follow it on its own terms, not on Rugby's, Aussie
> Rule's or cricket's. And if they don't find something appealing in our
> game, they are quite welcome to keep throwing their eggballs around
> till kingdom come.
Australia is in a unique position really, where four "football" codes
are all wresting for national attention. The boys from the NRL; ARU
and AFL are worried.
From: Mango on 17 Oct 2009 04:13
"Enzo" <s_debgupta(a)yahoo.com> wrote in message
On Oct 16, 3:48 am, "DavidW" <n...(a)email.provided> wrote:
>I wish to add one thing to what some others have said.
>Part of the reason players go down a lot in football is that
>it is a ***extremely*** tiring sport. I dont know much about
>Aussie Rules, but I do know plenty about cricket. Cricket
>is a very placid game indeed, especially if you are batting.
>Very placid. The difference with football is like chalk and cheese.
Cricket at its highest level is like a 5 day penalty shootout. It's not
hugely demanding physically (unless you are a fast bowler and even then you
get rests) but the mental pressure is immense. At its lowest levels its a
social day out.
From: Enzo on 17 Oct 2009 04:41
On Oct 17, 8:13 am, "Mango" <Fakem...(a)wherever.com> wrote:
> "Enzo" <s_debgu...(a)yahoo.com> wrote in message
> On Oct 16, 3:48 am, "DavidW" <n...(a)email.provided> wrote:
> >I wish to add one thing to what some others have said.
> >Part of the reason players go down a lot in football is that
> >it is a ***extremely*** tiring sport. I dont know much about
> >Aussie Rules, but I do know plenty about cricket. Cricket
> >is a very placid game indeed, especially if you are batting.
> >Very placid. The difference with football is like chalk and cheese.
> Cricket at its highest level is like a 5 day penalty shootout.
Or a 3-hour gun battle, with the advent of 20-20. But the people
are standing and shooting, so to speak. There is no comparison
with the impact on the muscles, lungs and bones that even 15 minutes
of top-level football can have.
From: ken.overton on 17 Oct 2009 07:47
On Oct 16, 10:35 am, MH <nos...(a)ucalgary.ca> wrote:
> From a Canadian perspective I didn't mind this article at all. He puts
> his finger on a problem people who are used to hockey and gridiron
> football can identify with, and what he describes is a real reflection
> of a prevalent attitude.
I don't mind that position, but he offers nothing new as far as I can
see, certainly nothing remotely like a solution. As far as I can see
his main point is "We are tougher and morally superior than the rest
of the world."
From: Diabolik on 17 Oct 2009 08:56
"Jellore" <jellore(a)bigpond.com> wrote in message
On Oct 17, 12:37 am, "Diabolik" <Diabo...(a)noemail.com> wrote:
> "DavidW" <n...(a)email.provided> wrote in message
> > Good article by an Australian sports writer (whose background is not in
> > soccer). All teams could take note, not just Australia.
> > Time to vote with the feet - and keep them
> > Greg Baum
> > 16 October 2009
> > ONE DAY at the MCG, many years ago, the great West Indian Viv Richards
> > hooked at a bouncer from Australia's Rodney Hogg, missed and was struck
> > a
> > fearful-looking blow to the head. It was unprotected, except for a cloth
> > cap. The crowd gasped. Richards did not flinch, did not reach for the
> > traumatised spot, did not even shake his head, but took block again. The
> > next ball, another bouncer, he clouted for six.
> > That was chalk. Cheese was Wednesday night's soccer international at
> > Etihad Stadium, in which - all too familiarly - a physically affronted
> > player would spin, crumple and then lie prone, as if picked off from the
> > grassy mound, bringing play to a screeching halt. Mostly, long before
> > the
> > ambulance and the police escort could be arranged, he would make a
> > Lazarus-like recovery.
> > The Omanis were more prone, so to speak, provoking an apparently
> > intemperate outburst from Australian team manager Garry Moretti to Oman
> > coach Claude Le Roy at half-time. The trouble for Moretti was that
> > Australia was standing not so much on high moral ground as thin ice.
> > When
> > necessary, Australians can roll, twist and writhe as well as any other.
> > At
> > one point, Josh Kennedy needed only a cross to turn Etihad Stadium into
> > Calvary at sunset.
> > Australians admired Richards, and were inspired by him, too. In most
> > sporting endeavours, it is something of a proud Australian tradition not
> > to betray even acute pain. A batsman, when struck, will not rub the sore
> > spot. A heavily tackled footballer will gasp for a moment, then
> > stoically
> > carry on. A tennis player will not call for the trainer until his leg
> > begins to detach.
> > The thinking is not necessarily profound. It's about machismo, about the
> > mental battle, about projecting a sense of indestructibility, about not
> > admitting to your opponent that he has had even a moral victory. It is
> > probably more reckless than it is wise. But it is us.
> > And it is why many Australians who have warmed to soccer in this, its
> > first golden age in this country, still are bemused by - even
> > contemptuous
> > of - the apparent frailty of so many soccer players, including
> > Socceroos.
> > They see it as antithetical to their idea of sport.
> > They cannot dispel the suspicion that some of these apparent axe murders
> > are no more than elaborate but tired tactical ploys, meant either to
> > slow
> > down the game or draw a sanction for an opponent. And they cannot help
> > but
> > think that all these boys crying wolf cruel it for the player who is
> > genuinely injured.
> > Here, the Socceroos have the chance to make a virtue of a vice. They
> > could
> > establish themselves as the team that plays the game, but not games.
> > They
> > could as a matter of policy make light of glancing slights and blows.
> > They
> > could, uniquely among soccer-playing nations, resolve to get on with the
> > game.
> > It would not be easy. No one doubts that an ankle clipped at pace hurts
> > as
> > if stabbed. No one doubts that sliding studs can inflict eye-watering
> > pain. No one doubts a rough body check can have the effect of a rugby
> > tackle.
> > What they do doubt is that minutes later, the pain is still so
> > unrelievedly excruciating that the victim is lying inert on the turf,
> > hair
> > arranged just so, or else clutching for several body parts at once, as
> > if
> > unable to remember which was supposed nearly to have been severed,
> > meantime wincing dramatically, but with a half-open eye cocked towards
> > the
> > referee to make sure that he is watching.
> > What they do doubt is that some of these clashes hurt any more than, for
> > instance, the ball does when a defender blocks a thumping shot at close
> > range, or heads it out of the skies. On Wednesday night, Omani
> > goalkeeper
> > Ali Al Habsi made a save when the ball struck him in the head. Though he
> > must have seen stars, he did not even wince, let alone collapse for the
> > camera; there was still a goal to be saved.
> > Critics doubtlessly will say that I do not understand the game. They
> > ought
> > to consider this: much as the Socceroos are striving to impress the
> > world,
> > they are still tasked with trying to impress Australia. Much ground has
> > been gained, but much has still to be made; the barely passable crowd on
> > Wednesday night says as much. Australia is an earnest and honest team,
> > but
> > despite the yellow shirts, it is not like watching Brazil, not yet.
> > It is not enough to say Australia must accustom itself to the world
> > game;
> > the world game must also adapt to Australia. It must be a game with
> > which
> > all Australian can identify. It has shown a willingness already, for
> > instance, in the format of the A-League, which meshes league and
> > knock-out
> > competitions in a way would be a curio elsewhere in the world, but makes
> > sense here.
> > Mostly, Australians prefer their sporting representatives to be hard,
> > robust, impervious to pain. The Socceroos have a chance to take a
> > stance.
> > Upright.
> This idot and his like think they understand football but they don't.
> Football don't need these wankers, or their stupid comments. They want to
> part of this sport because they know it's going to be BIG, but they will
> never understand football.
> The ref knows what's going on in football and acting, something this
> journalist didn't even mention. Yeah the players act, but who cares,
> everyone knows it's part of the game and see beyond it.
> The difference is mainly cultural, and it's not about cheating.
> Australians have rugby league and AFL as a national sport and that says
> everything really. These are brain dead idiots rumbling each other, they
> don't care if they break bones and they are ridiculous to watch, something
> never wish my children to play. These sports are those of cavemen, not
> civilised people, yet they have the hide to criticise football. Give me a
> But Rugby League is not the national sport of Australia. It is only
> played with any real intent in NSW and Qld. AFL is the number one
> sport in WA; SA and Vic...the NT too.
> I have no great love for these sports either, however don't stoop to
> the level of Baum and denigrate them.
How can you not stoop to his level, and anyone who thinks like him, which is
a LOT of people?
They take the morally higher ground, which is a joke, given that Rugby and
AFL players are always in the news for raping women, bashing girls and
behaving badly in general.
I have zero tollerance for these people.