From: Clément on
"Mehdi" escreveu:
>
> Dunga was a brave choice and despite the meltdown against the Dutch
> I thought he did very well and I greatly admired the ruthless, machine
> like efficiency of his team although I appear to be in the minority.

That makes at least two of us.

> Scolari has been awful since the World Cup, like CAP before him. They
> peaked.

I'm afraid you might be right about Scolari.

> What about Lourenco or Zico?

Rog�rio Louren�o is very unproven, and, frankly, I would be wary of pretty
much any of the Brazil youth team's coaches from the last 10-15 years. More
often than not, they seem to fail to build good teams, especially
considering the amount of available talent.

Zico would be an intriguing choice. He has the charisma, he is respected, is
a media darling, and has experience. I'm not sure he would be interested,
though.

One of the best Brazilian coaches of the last 4-5 years has been Muricy
Ramalho. However, his teams are fairly pragmatic, and he is quite
media-unfriendly himself, so the thinking here is that CBF won't want a
second coach like that in a row.

There's a lot of talk about Mano Menezes. He was very good for Gr�mio, and
has done a solid job at Corinthians - and the fact he is Corinthians' coach
plays a big role on his name being thrown out as a candidate. But I'm not
sure he has the pedigree.

Leonardo would be a brave choice, as was Dunga. He is an intelligent and
levelheaded man, it could work. Then again, would CBF be willing to go with
an unexperienced coach for the second time in a row?


Abra�o,

Luiz Mello

From: Ll�o on
"Cl�ment" <lcmello.listas(a)terra.com.br> escreveu na mensagem
news:i136lh$95j$1(a)news.eternal-september.org...
> "Mehdi" escreveu:
>>
>> Dunga was a brave choice and despite the meltdown against the Dutch
>> I thought he did very well and I greatly admired the ruthless, machine
>> like efficiency of his team although I appear to be in the minority.
>
> That makes at least two of us.

Three of us if you count me in.

>> Scolari has been awful since the World Cup, like CAP before him. They
>> peaked.
>
> I'm afraid you might be right about Scolari.

Since WC'2006 I presume. Got to concede you both have a point there.

>> What about Lourenco or Zico?
>
> Rog�rio Louren�o is very unproven, and, frankly, I would be wary of pretty
> much any of the Brazil youth team's coaches from the last 10-15 years.
> More often than not, they seem to fail to build good teams, especially
> considering the amount of available talent.

Seconded. I don't think CBF even considers him.

> Zico would be an intriguing choice. He has the charisma, he is respected,
> is a media darling, and has experience. I'm not sure he would be
> interested, though.

Zico did fine as manager of Japan. Indeed, I think that Japan's Asian Cup
win in 2004 should rank very high in his accomplishments list. It was an
environment as hostile as it could get, and the Japanese demonstrated
steel-like mental strenght.

But as manager of Brasil, given the expectations that are being built over
2014 since now ("it's the one we HAVE to WIN"), I don't know... for all the
talk about "being patient" for the renewing process, I think there will be
immense pressure anyway. And why should Zico choose it over his current
position, at the club he is worshipped?

I can't end a reference about Zico without mentioning that, when Japan
scored two goals via free kicks against Denmark, the Brasilian media went on
about how Zico "taught them how to take free kicks". Of course, seeing as
how things went against Paraguay, I can't help but think he might have
taught them penalties too :-)

> One of the best Brazilian coaches of the last 4-5 years has been Muricy
> Ramalho. However, his teams are fairly pragmatic, and he is quite
> media-unfriendly himself, so the thinking here is that CBF won't want a
> second coach like that in a row.

Muricy could be a nice choice, but I sure hope that his media-unfriendly
nature is not the main reason to keep him from taking over, in case both
parties are interested.

> There's a lot of talk about Mano Menezes. He was very good for Gr�mio, and
> has done a solid job at Corinthians - and the fact he is Corinthians'
> coach plays a big role on his name being thrown out as a candidate. But
> I'm not sure he has the pedigree.

Another possible nice choice. He said he hasn't been approached and it's all
rumours, though, and according to Corinthians president Andres Sanchez, who
was with the Brasilian staff in South Africa, he's tied to them until 2011
(not sure which month)

> Leonardo would be a brave choice, as was Dunga. He is an intelligent and
> levelheaded man, it could work. Then again, would CBF be willing to go
> with an unexperienced coach for the second time in a row?

Fwiw, apart from Scolari he is the only other "candidate" who seemed
interested on the job.

--
Ll�o


From: Abubakr on
On Jul 8, 4:36 pm, "Lléo" <lleo...(a)lycos.com> wrote:
> "Clément" <lcmello.lis...(a)terra.com.br> escreveu na mensagemnews:i136lh$95j$1(a)news.eternal-september.org...
>
> > "Mehdi" escreveu:
>
> >> Dunga was a brave choice and despite the meltdown against the Dutch
> >> I thought he did very well and I greatly admired the ruthless, machine
> >> like efficiency of his team although I appear to be in the minority.
>
> > That makes at least two of us.
>
> Three of us if you count me in.

Indeed, he did a fine job of including three or four absolutely
useless players in lieu of you know who for the sake being his own man
and a 'squad unity' that, like his own poise, went down the shitter
when the chips were down.
From: Clément on
On Jul 8, 4:02 am, Abubakr wrote:
> On Jul 8, 4:36 pm, "Lléo" wrote:
> > "Clément" escreveu:
>
> > > "Mehdi" escreveu:
>
> > >> Dunga was a brave choice and despite the meltdown against the Dutch
> > >> I thought he did very well and I greatly admired the ruthless, machine
> > >> like efficiency of his team although I appear to be in the minority.
>
> > > That makes at least two of us.
>
> > Three of us if you count me in.
>
> Indeed, he did a fine job of including three or four absolutely
> useless players in lieu of you know who for the sake being his own man

See, I would be a 100% with you here, if "you know who" had earned a
spot in the NT. Having a guy like him would go a long way towards
having the much needed Plan B for our game plan, as deadly efficient
as it was in appropriate circumstances.

Did Dunga put a weight on loyalty and trust. Yes he did, and a lot,
but it was never disconnected of what those playeds delivered on the
field *for the NT*. It's not like he took anyone who performed badly
under him (although he did take one or two players that weren't tested
that much).

> and a 'squad unity' that, like his own poise, went down the shitter
> when the chips were down.

I don't think the squad unity ever went down at this WC. The players
were behind Dunga and there were no squad rifts (at least no one worth
mention by a press that was eager to point out flaws to Dunga's
approach).

Obviously, this no consolation when you ended upo losing the World Cup
all the same, but we must give Dunga that: he build a solid group
environment, with a remarkable work ethic. This is no small feat when
it comes to the Brazilian NT.

Abraço,

Luiz Mello
From: Clément on
On Jul 8, 3:36 am, "Lléo" wrote:
>
> But as manager of Brasil, given the expectations that are being built over
> 2014 since now ("it's the one we HAVE to WIN"), I don't know... for all the
> talk about "being patient" for the renewing process, I think there will be
> immense pressure anyway. And why should Zico choose it over his current
> position, at the club he is worshipped?

Keep in mind that he hesitated for years before accepting a position
at framengo's staff, and only did so when club president Patricia
Amorim (who seems to be a honest person, for a change) took over. It
might be that he didn't want to work with previous boards, but most
likely and more importantly, he wouldn't want to taint his unblemished
image.

This could be a factor when and if he gets a call from CBF. Would he
want to take on the challenge?

> I can't end a reference about Zico without mentioning that, when Japan
> scored two goals via free kicks against Denmark, the Brasilian media went on
> about how Zico "taught them how to take free kicks". Of course, seeing as
> how things went against Paraguay, I can't help but think he might have
> taught them penalties too :-)

This is a good example of the kind of slack he could get from the
media if he were the NT coach. Any setback would be anyone else's
fault before being pinned on Zico. He would be an UnDunga in this
sense.

> Muricy could be a nice choice, but I sure hope that his media-unfriendly
> nature is not the main reason to keep him from taking over, in case both
> parties are interested.

Not only his public image, but also his pragmatic approach, in case
CBF decides to go with a coach prone to make Brazil play in the
"Brazilian way" (whatever that means).

Abraço,

Luiz Mello