From: Futbolmetrix on

"Abubakr" <deltarasha(a)gmail.com> wrote in message
news:5d086ef9-707a-451a-a3c6-a87e60b72506(a)x27g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
On Jul 2, 12:37 am, JK <jkn...(a)oacpc.com> wrote:

> I certainly don't agree that this is the best Dutch side for 20 years.

Possibly. But odds on the Dutch qualifying on betfair are about 3 to 1. I
would put a few bucks on that.

> I doubt that I would choose anyone apart from Robben and maybe
> Sneijder from this team in a best Dutch XI of the past 20 years even.

Hm...

Van Der Sar

? Stam R. Koeman Van Bronkhorst(?)

Robben Davids Cocu Overmars/Sneijder(?)

Bergkamp Van Nistelrooy


You're probably right...

D


From: JK on
Abubakr wrote:
> On Jul 2, 1:07 am, "Paul C" <p...(a)thersgb.net> wrote:
>> "JK" <jkn...(a)oacpc.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:i0i7rf$1df$1(a)news.eternal-september.org...
>>
>>> 1) Ideally this would be a SF as I think Brazil, NL, Spain, Arg are the
>>> four best teams.
>>> 2) This NL side is very, very good, maybe their best team since 1990,
>>> certainly the most balanced...but still not as good as Brazil.
>> I don't think the Netherlands have been at all impressive. They are a class
>> below Germany, Brazil and Argentina on the evidence of the games played so
>> far.
>
> And below Spain too. The Dutch play has been excruciatingly painful
> to watch - like a slightly better and more efficient err...Slovakia.


I can understand what folks are saying, but I disagree. The Dutch have
played an extremely controlled, patient game, and have improved with
each game. They also have probably the best defense I think they've
brought to a tournament in a long time. Also, this team has a better
mentality than previous Dutch teams: basically, "winners, not whiners".
They also are being well-coached so far.
From: JK on
KaiserD2(a)gmail.com wrote:
> On Thu, 01 Jul 2010 10:37:26 -0400, JK <jknapp(a)oacpc.com> wrote:
>
>> 1) Ideally this would be a SF as I think Brazil, NL, Spain, Arg are the
>> four best teams.
>>
>> 2) This NL side is very, very good, maybe their best team since 1990,
>> certainly the most balanced...but still not as good as Brazil.
>>
>> 3) I think the NL can win, if absolutely everything goes right, namely
>> they end with 11 players, and their forwards convert their chances,
>> which may not be many, and the GK comes up big.
>>
>> 4) Van Bommel and DeJong are going to be hugely important.
>>
>> 5) Honestly, I'm tempted to say that Brazil wins if for no other reason
>> than that they have Maicon and Holland doesn't.
>>
>> 6) Given the furor over RvP it would be tempting to give Huntelaar a
>> start...but I'm not sure that's a good idea. But I'd keep RvP on a
>> short leash. He really needs to show up.
>
> I am actually afraid this may be a very dull game, because both
> sides have been at their best counterattacking. The real marquee
> matches of the QFs are Uruguay-Ghana (even though neither one is much
> of a threat to win the cup) and of course Germany-Argentina.
>
> Best Dutch team since 1990? The 1990 team sucked!

The team included MvB, Gullit, Koeman, Rijkaard, Van Broekelen et al.
They didn't suck. They played poorly in the first round, but showed
well in the 2nd, but were up against the best team and lost. I still
think they could have won if they had avoided Germany until later.


The 1998-2000
> team was great and how they lost Euro 2000 is still utterly beyond me.
> DK

The 1998 team was very good, but in atypical fashion for Holland,
overachieved. And they had Kluivert, who was not up to par.

The Euro 2000 team was good, but not great.
From: JK on
Futbolmetrix wrote:
> "Abubakr" <deltarasha(a)gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:5d086ef9-707a-451a-a3c6-a87e60b72506(a)x27g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
> On Jul 2, 12:37 am, JK <jkn...(a)oacpc.com> wrote:
>
>> I certainly don't agree that this is the best Dutch side for 20 years.
>
> Possibly. But odds on the Dutch qualifying on betfair are about 3 to 1. I
> would put a few bucks on that.
>
>> I doubt that I would choose anyone apart from Robben and maybe
>> Sneijder from this team in a best Dutch XI of the past 20 years even.
>
> Hm...
>
> Van Der Sar
>
> ? Stam R. Koeman Van Bronkhorst(?)
>
> Robben Davids Cocu Overmars/Sneijder(?)
>
> Bergkamp Van Nistelrooy
>
>
> You're probably right...


Fair enough, but as a unit, I think this is a more cohesive team than
they've shown in a long time. They are built to win games in a knock
out tournament, not to impress.

I still think that it will be enough against Brazil.


From: Werner Pichler on
On 1 Jul., 17:56, JK <jkn...(a)oacpc.com> wrote:
> Kaise...(a)gmail.com wrote:
> > On Thu, 01 Jul 2010 10:37:26 -0400, JK <jkn...(a)oacpc.com> wrote:
>
> >> 1) Ideally this would be a SF as I think Brazil, NL, Spain, Arg are the
> >> four best teams.
>
> >> 2)  This NL side is very, very good, maybe their best team since 1990,
> >> certainly the most balanced...but still not as good as Brazil.
>
> >> 3) I think the NL can win, if absolutely everything goes right, namely
> >> they end with 11 players, and their forwards convert their chances,
> >> which may not be many, and the GK comes up big.
>
> >> 4)  Van Bommel and DeJong are going to be hugely important.
>
> >> 5)  Honestly, I'm tempted to say that Brazil wins if for no other reason
> >> than that they have Maicon and Holland doesn't.
>
> >> 6)  Given the furor over RvP it would be tempting to give Huntelaar a
> >> start...but I'm not sure that's a good idea.  But I'd keep RvP on a
> >> short leash.  He really needs to show up.
>
> >    I am actually afraid this may be a very dull game, because both
> > sides have been at their best counterattacking.  The real marquee
> > matches of the QFs are Uruguay-Ghana (even though neither one is much
> > of a threat to win the cup) and of course Germany-Argentina.  
>
> >    Best Dutch team since 1990? The 1990 team sucked!
>
> The team included MvB, Gullit, Koeman, Rijkaard, Van Broekelen et al.
> They didn't suck.  They played poorly in the first round, but showed
> well in the 2nd, but were up against the best team and lost.  I still
> think they could have won if they had avoided Germany until later.

And that, typical for Dutch luck, depended on a drawing of lots.
But instead they would have met Italy in the quarterfinal anyway,
and I don't think they would have passed that hurdle.

Ciao,
Werner