From: Raja, The Great on
On Jul 16, 8:31 am, Scott <scott...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Jul 16, 9:20 am, "Raja, The Great" <zepflo...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jul 16, 8:15 am, Scott <scott...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > I couldn't sit through Marnie or The Birds courtesy Tippi Hedren. She
> > > > is just a pretty face, if there was ever one. I still can't figure why
> > > > The Birds is considered a masterpiece. The whole idea of birds
> > > > targeting some chick is somewhat ridiculous. And I don't think the
> > > > reason for those attacks were ever explained.-
>
> > > agree about Marnie and the Birds. however, i'm not blaming Tippi;
> > > there just wasn't enough of the spectacular in either one.
>
> > Hitchcock movies got increasingly sadistic (with women) starting
> > Vertigo, don't you think? I think tortures all his women starting
> > Vertigo. I haven't seen his movies post Marnie. I should check out
> > Frenzy, supposed to be massively underrated.
>
> he was always a sadist, not only to women but to male actors and crew
> members.  the ugly truth is laid bare in Donald Spot's well-known
> 'Dark side of a genius.".  Tough to read, but you see AH like his co-
> workers did.
>
> a pretty famous line in Notorious, uttered by Cary Grant: "I was a fat-
> headed guy, full of pain" is Hitchcock looking back at himself.
>
> disagree about V being misogynistic.  the character of Midge is so
> beautifully realized that it negates the perception that Scotty hates
> women.
>
> btw, don't forget V opens with a scene that makes you dislike Scotty
> at once.  how did he survive?  He asks you to believe that he did;
> then we watch Scotty lose all hope he had in finding love and/or
> professional dignity. So in this universe, there is no value in
> believing--anything.

Check this out. Tallulah and Olivia... very funny
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcr0QsPtCgg
From: Scott on
On Jul 16, 10:30 am, "Raja, The Great" <zepflo...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Jul 16, 8:31 am, Scott <scott...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jul 16, 9:20 am, "Raja, The Great" <zepflo...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Jul 16, 8:15 am, Scott <scott...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > I couldn't sit through Marnie or The Birds courtesy Tippi Hedren. She
> > > > > is just a pretty face, if there was ever one. I still can't figure why
> > > > > The Birds is considered a masterpiece. The whole idea of birds
> > > > > targeting some chick is somewhat ridiculous. And I don't think the
> > > > > reason for those attacks were ever explained.-
>
> > > > agree about Marnie and the Birds. however, i'm not blaming Tippi;
> > > > there just wasn't enough of the spectacular in either one.
>
> > > Hitchcock movies got increasingly sadistic (with women) starting
> > > Vertigo, don't you think? I think tortures all his women starting
> > > Vertigo. I haven't seen his movies post Marnie. I should check out
> > > Frenzy, supposed to be massively underrated.
>
> > he was always a sadist, not only to women but to male actors and crew
> > members.  the ugly truth is laid bare in Donald Spot's well-known
> > 'Dark side of a genius.".  Tough to read, but you see AH like his co-
> > workers did.
>
> > a pretty famous line in Notorious, uttered by Cary Grant: "I was a fat-
> > headed guy, full of pain" is Hitchcock looking back at himself.
>
> > disagree about V being misogynistic.  
>
> Not misogynistic, but somewhat cruel.
>
> >the character of Midge is so
> > beautifully realized that it negates the perception that Scotty hates
> > women.
>
> I think he loves as well as hates women. Just like most of us. ;-)
>
>
> > btw, don't forget V opens with a scene that makes you dislike Scotty
> > at once.  how did he survive?  He asks you to believe that he did;
> > then we watch Scotty lose all hope he had in finding love and/or
> > professional dignity. So in this universe, there is no value in
> > believing--anything.-

Hitchcock's personal misogyny is well documented in Spoto's book.

From: Calimero on
On 16 Jul., 04:31, "Raja, The Great" <zepflo...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> A nice article... I have watched all these movies...except The Birds,
> I like all of them. I am not a very big fan of either North By
> Northwest (a James Bond type movie which I didn't find too thrilling)
> or Vertigo (somewhat cold, I couldn't sympathize with any character).
> I like the early ones better. Unlike most people I think his best era
> was from 1938 - The Lady Vanishes to 1946 - Notorious). But I do like
> some of his latter movies like Dial M For Murder and Psycho very much.
> I would replace The Birds with Rebecca or Shadow Of A Doubt, both are
> absolute masterpieces in my opinion. I also like Lifeboat, his most
> underrated movie.
>
> http://classicfilm.about.com/od/actorsanddirectors/tp/Best-Hitchcock-...
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Alfred Hitchcock had a long, productive career making fine movies that
> all bore his distinctive trademarks, all including a cameo by the
> portly "Master of Suspense" himself. Some of them were masterpieces;
> all of them are entertaining. Here's a list of nine of the best Alfred
> Hitchcock movies.
>
> 1. 'The 39 Steps' - 1935
> Made during his early career in Britain, The 39 Steps is stamped with
> Hitchcock movie hallmarks - an innocent man on the run, unwillingly
> accompanied by an icy blonde who's not sure she can trust him. It's an
> involving espionage mystery that jaunts across the streets of London
> to the Scottish countryside, with a tight plot and clever dialogue.
> There's good chemistry between Robert Donat as the plucky Canadian
> hero and Madeleine Carroll literally handcuffed together. Donat is
> delightful when he is mistaken for a political candidate and has to
> give a rousing, impromptu speech - a scene Hitchcock would repeat in
> subsequent films.
>
> 2. 'The Lady Vanishes' - 1938
> Suppose you're chatting with a charming old lady on a train. You doze
> off, - and the lady vanishes. What's more, no one on the train will
> believe that she was ever there, That's the problem Hitchcock sets
> plucky Margaret Lockwood and fellow traveler Michael Redgrave, the
> only other passenger willing to give her the benefit of the doubt. A
> great cast with Dame May Whitty as the disappearing Miss Froy and a
> stable of terrific comic English actors rounds out the mystery, and
> the fun. There's always sly or macabre humor in Hitchcock films, but
> The Lady Vanishes may be his most amusing movie - one of the last he
> made in England, and a box-office success that helped ensure his
> welcome in Hollywood.
>
> 3. 'Notorious' - 1946
> Tense espionage thriller with Hitchcock's favorite actor, Cary Grant,
> as an upright American agent and Ingrid Bergman as the daughter of a
> German spy. Bergman - at heart an American patriot - is a notorious
> party girl and a drinker. Grant recruits her as an agent to infiltrate
> a Nazi plot in Rio, and of course falls in love with her. Despite a
> passionate kissing scene that runs three minutes, they can't quite get
> their act together. Cary fails to claim her, and lets her go off to
> serve her country in the arms of the chief local Nazi, Claude Rains.
> Terrific sexual tension and nail-biting suspense, along with great
> examples of Hitchcock "McGuffins" (in this case a key and some wine
> bottles) that serve both as plot devices and symbols.
>
> 4. 'Strangers on a Train' - 1951
> Yet another chance Hitchcock meeting of strangers on a train - this
> one with a strong homoerotic subtext and a particularly nasty murder.
> Professional tennis player Guy Haines (Farley Granger) meets idle rich
> boy Bruno Anthony (Robert Walker), who turns out to know quite a bit
> about Guy - enough to propose a bizarre double murder. He'll get rid
> of Guy's coarse and cheating wife, and Guy will do away with Bruno's
> domineering dad, who's withholding the trust fund. The idea is that
> they'll each have alibis and escape detection. Walker is truly creepy;
> there are some unforgettable camera angles and set shots; and a
> terrifying climax with an out-of control carousel. Thrilling stuff.
>
> 5. 'Rear Window' - 1954
> No trains here, but Hitchcockian voyeurism and obsession are on full
> display. Photographer Jimmy Stewart is laid up with a broken leg,
> spying on his fellow New Yorker in a courtyard surrounded by apartment
> houses. Seen from his rear window, they're funny, lonely, lively and
> possibly deadly, in the case of the mysterious traveling salesman
> whose sickly, nagging wife suddenly disappears. Stewart enlists the
> help of his gorgeous girlfriend, elegant Grace Kelly as a Park Avenue
> fashion model/designer, to solve the mystery. A bizarrely original
> plot, ingenious set and heart-pounding suspense highlight Rear Window,
> along with a fascinating look at the open windows of New York
> apartment life in the days before air conditioning.
> Read Review
>
> 6. 'Vertigo' - 1958
> I favor North by Northwest, but many see Vertigo, a brooding
> exploration of obsession, failed nerve and lost love as Hitchcock's
> masterpiece movie. It's filmed in a dreamlike haze on the oddly empty
> streets of San Francisco, as Jimmy Stewart pursues Kim Novak, another
> elegant Hitchcock blonde, who seems to slip in and out of her dead
> great-grandmother's persona. Here again is the central Hitchcock motif
> of a pair of lovers who are made for each other, but can't quite come
> to a place of trust, and for good reason. The plot's a little iffy,
> but that's not the point in this almost surreal tale. You'll find
> yourself thinking back on its slow, dreamy scenes for days after you
> see it.
>
> 7. 'North by Northwest' - 1959
> This one's got just about every Hitchcock theme stuffed masterfully
> inside. A "chance" meeting on a train, mistaken identity, a man
> falsely accused, an icy blonde, a little voyeurism, a touch of
> homoeroticism, a woman sent to seduce a spy for love of her country
> and locations that range from Madison Avenue to Mount Rushmore. Whew!
> Its all wildly entertaining, with Cary Grant as the impossibly
> debonair, quick-thinking hero, Eva-Marie Saint as the ice-blonde femme
> fatale, James Mason as the dastardly spy and Martin Landau as his too-
> devoted henchman. Witty dialogue, a breakneck pace and a microfilm
> McGuffin. People, what are you waiting for? Go watch this movie. And
> if you've already seen it, go watch it again!
> Read Review
>
> 8. 'Psycho' - 1960
> Not Hitchcock's best film, but perhaps his most famous. Shocking in
> its day, it seems tame by modern horror movie standards, but it can
> still pack a jolt or two. Janet Leigh is a comely criminal who rips
> off her boss and makes a very bad decision to spend a night at the
> Bates Motel. There she meets Norman Bates, mild-mannered momma's boy
> and serious psycho. He likes to spy on motel guests (voyeurism again)
> and gets a little agitated, which leads to the infamous shower scene.
> With its famous screeching-violin score by Bernard Herrman, it seems a
> bit campy now, but countless horror movies owe a great deal to this
> classic Hitchcock film.
>
> 9. 'The Birds' - 1963
> Bizarre and absolutely unforgettable, Hitchcock's The Birds is the
> story of an inexplicable avian attack on a quiet seaside town. For no
> apparent reason, the birds attack kids at birthday parties, innocent
> farmers and school teachers in vicious, mindless waves. While it's
> tempting to see it as an ecological fable, the film really has more to
> do with primal human forces. It's Hitchcock's trademark exploration of
> men with strong mothers and the relative attractions of icy blondes
> like Tippi Hedren versus earthy beauties like Suzanne Pleshette.
> Trained birds, mechanical birds and animated birds make for
> spectacular scenes of menace, and the vision of crows settling
> silently on a school playground, one by one, will stay with you.


Vertigo is by far the best.
I don't think there is any disagreement on this among movie experts.


Max
From: Raja, The Great on
On Jul 16, 4:11 pm, Calimero <calimero...(a)gmx.de> wrote:
> On 16 Jul., 04:31, "Raja, The Great" <zepflo...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > A nice article... I have watched all these movies...except The Birds,
> > I like all of them. I am not a very big fan of either North By
> > Northwest (a James Bond type movie which I didn't find too thrilling)
> > or Vertigo (somewhat cold, I couldn't sympathize with any character).
> > I like the early ones better. Unlike most people I think his best era
> > was from 1938 - The Lady Vanishes to 1946 - Notorious). But I do like
> > some of his latter movies like Dial M For Murder and Psycho very much.
> > I would replace The Birds with Rebecca or Shadow Of A Doubt, both are
> > absolute masterpieces in my opinion. I also like Lifeboat, his most
> > underrated movie.
>
> >http://classicfilm.about.com/od/actorsanddirectors/tp/Best-Hitchcock-...
>
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------
>
> > Alfred Hitchcock had a long, productive career making fine movies that
> > all bore his distinctive trademarks, all including a cameo by the
> > portly "Master of Suspense" himself. Some of them were masterpieces;
> > all of them are entertaining. Here's a list of nine of the best Alfred
> > Hitchcock movies.
>
> > 1. 'The 39 Steps' - 1935
> > Made during his early career in Britain, The 39 Steps is stamped with
> > Hitchcock movie hallmarks - an innocent man on the run, unwillingly
> > accompanied by an icy blonde who's not sure she can trust him. It's an
> > involving espionage mystery that jaunts across the streets of London
> > to the Scottish countryside, with a tight plot and clever dialogue.
> > There's good chemistry between Robert Donat as the plucky Canadian
> > hero and Madeleine Carroll literally handcuffed together. Donat is
> > delightful when he is mistaken for a political candidate and has to
> > give a rousing, impromptu speech - a scene Hitchcock would repeat in
> > subsequent films.
>
> > 2. 'The Lady Vanishes' - 1938
> > Suppose you're chatting with a charming old lady on a train. You doze
> > off, - and the lady vanishes. What's more, no one on the train will
> > believe that she was ever there, That's the problem Hitchcock sets
> > plucky Margaret Lockwood and fellow traveler Michael Redgrave, the
> > only other passenger willing to give her the benefit of the doubt. A
> > great cast with Dame May Whitty as the disappearing Miss Froy and a
> > stable of terrific comic English actors rounds out the mystery, and
> > the fun. There's always sly or macabre humor in Hitchcock films, but
> > The Lady Vanishes may be his most amusing movie - one of the last he
> > made in England, and a box-office success that helped ensure his
> > welcome in Hollywood.
>
> > 3. 'Notorious' - 1946
> > Tense espionage thriller with Hitchcock's favorite actor, Cary Grant,
> > as an upright American agent and Ingrid Bergman as the daughter of a
> > German spy. Bergman - at heart an American patriot - is a notorious
> > party girl and a drinker. Grant recruits her as an agent to infiltrate
> > a Nazi plot in Rio, and of course falls in love with her. Despite a
> > passionate kissing scene that runs three minutes, they can't quite get
> > their act together. Cary fails to claim her, and lets her go off to
> > serve her country in the arms of the chief local Nazi, Claude Rains.
> > Terrific sexual tension and nail-biting suspense, along with great
> > examples of Hitchcock "McGuffins" (in this case a key and some wine
> > bottles) that serve both as plot devices and symbols.
>
> > 4. 'Strangers on a Train' - 1951
> > Yet another chance Hitchcock meeting of strangers on a train - this
> > one with a strong homoerotic subtext and a particularly nasty murder.
> > Professional tennis player Guy Haines (Farley Granger) meets idle rich
> > boy Bruno Anthony (Robert Walker), who turns out to know quite a bit
> > about Guy - enough to propose a bizarre double murder. He'll get rid
> > of Guy's coarse and cheating wife, and Guy will do away with Bruno's
> > domineering dad, who's withholding the trust fund. The idea is that
> > they'll each have alibis and escape detection. Walker is truly creepy;
> > there are some unforgettable camera angles and set shots; and a
> > terrifying climax with an out-of control carousel. Thrilling stuff.
>
> > 5. 'Rear Window' - 1954
> > No trains here, but Hitchcockian voyeurism and obsession are on full
> > display. Photographer Jimmy Stewart is laid up with a broken leg,
> > spying on his fellow New Yorker in a courtyard surrounded by apartment
> > houses. Seen from his rear window, they're funny, lonely, lively and
> > possibly deadly, in the case of the mysterious traveling salesman
> > whose sickly, nagging wife suddenly disappears. Stewart enlists the
> > help of his gorgeous girlfriend, elegant Grace Kelly as a Park Avenue
> > fashion model/designer, to solve the mystery. A bizarrely original
> > plot, ingenious set and heart-pounding suspense highlight Rear Window,
> > along with a fascinating look at the open windows of New York
> > apartment life in the days before air conditioning.
> > Read Review
>
> > 6. 'Vertigo' - 1958
> > I favor North by Northwest, but many see Vertigo, a brooding
> > exploration of obsession, failed nerve and lost love as Hitchcock's
> > masterpiece movie. It's filmed in a dreamlike haze on the oddly empty
> > streets of San Francisco, as Jimmy Stewart pursues Kim Novak, another
> > elegant Hitchcock blonde, who seems to slip in and out of her dead
> > great-grandmother's persona. Here again is the central Hitchcock motif
> > of a pair of lovers who are made for each other, but can't quite come
> > to a place of trust, and for good reason. The plot's a little iffy,
> > but that's not the point in this almost surreal tale. You'll find
> > yourself thinking back on its slow, dreamy scenes for days after you
> > see it.
>
> > 7. 'North by Northwest' - 1959
> > This one's got just about every Hitchcock theme stuffed masterfully
> > inside. A "chance" meeting on a train, mistaken identity, a man
> > falsely accused, an icy blonde, a little voyeurism, a touch of
> > homoeroticism, a woman sent to seduce a spy for love of her country
> > and locations that range from Madison Avenue to Mount Rushmore. Whew!
> > Its all wildly entertaining, with Cary Grant as the impossibly
> > debonair, quick-thinking hero, Eva-Marie Saint as the ice-blonde femme
> > fatale, James Mason as the dastardly spy and Martin Landau as his too-
> > devoted henchman. Witty dialogue, a breakneck pace and a microfilm
> > McGuffin. People, what are you waiting for? Go watch this movie. And
> > if you've already seen it, go watch it again!
> > Read Review
>
> > 8. 'Psycho' - 1960
> > Not Hitchcock's best film, but perhaps his most famous. Shocking in
> > its day, it seems tame by modern horror movie standards, but it can
> > still pack a jolt or two. Janet Leigh is a comely criminal who rips
> > off her boss and makes a very bad decision to spend a night at the
> > Bates Motel. There she meets Norman Bates, mild-mannered momma's boy
> > and serious psycho. He likes to spy on motel guests (voyeurism again)
> > and gets a little agitated, which leads to the infamous shower scene.
> > With its famous screeching-violin score by Bernard Herrman, it seems a
> > bit campy now, but countless horror movies owe a great deal to this
> > classic Hitchcock film.
>
> > 9. 'The Birds' - 1963
> > Bizarre and absolutely unforgettable, Hitchcock's The Birds is the
> > story of an inexplicable avian attack on a quiet seaside town. For no
> > apparent reason, the birds attack kids at birthday parties, innocent
> > farmers and school teachers in vicious, mindless waves. While it's
> > tempting to see it as an ecological fable, the film really has more to
> > do with primal human forces. It's Hitchcock's trademark exploration of
> > men with strong mothers and the relative attractions of icy blondes
> > like Tippi Hedren versus earthy beauties like Suzanne Pleshette.
> > Trained birds, mechanical birds and animated birds make for
> > spectacular scenes of menace, and the vision of crows settling
> > silently on a school playground, one by one, will stay with you.
>
> Vertigo is by far the best.
> I don't think there is any disagreement on this among movie experts.

Actually there is. Initially when it was released it was panned. It
has grown in stature tremendously. Even Hitchcock made an excuse for
it. "Hitchcock blamed the film's failure on Stewart, at age 50,
looking too old to play a convincing love interest for Kim Novak, who
at 25 was half his age at the time"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vertigo_(film)

-------------------

The film received mixed reviews upon initial release, but has garnered
much acclaim since then and is now frequently ranked among the
greatest films ever made, and often cited as a classic Hitchcock film
and one of the defining works of his career.

Its performance at the box office was average,[9] and reviews were
mixed. Variety said the film showed Hitchcock's "mastery", but was too
long and slow for "what is basically only a psychological murder
mystery".[10] Similarly, the Los Angeles Times admired the scenery,
but found the plot "too long" and felt it "bogs down" in "a maze of
detail"; scholar Dan Aulier says that this review "sounded the tone
that most popular critics would take with the film"

From: Joe Ramirez on
On Jul 16, 5:33 pm, "Raja, The Great" <zepflo...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:

[Wiki cut & paste deleted]

It's not unusual for movies to be criticized first as entertainment,
and years later as art. The initial evaluation by the popular press
may focus on conventional storytelling attributes, such as the
coherence of the plot, plausibility of the casting, effectiveness of
the pacing, etc. The flaws identified by such reviews may be very real
flaws -- from that particular point of view. But a great film, such as
"Vertigo," will have compensating qualities that eventually overwhelm
the flaws as the years go by, and the simple storytelling problems
become less important to fans and critics alike. E.g., it turns out
that the disturbing psychological mood is very powerful and rare, and
thus important, whereas the flaws are more routine, and thus rather
trivial in deep hindsight.