From: HD(noSpam)Beers on
How can a ball reach an Italian player (not a goalkeeper) before it
reaches a Kiwi (read USA's D team) player and be a violation of the
offsides rule?
From: Quincy on
On 20 Jun., 19:16, "HD(noSpam)Be...(a)gmail.com" <hdbe...(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
> How can a ball reach an Italian player (not a goalkeeper) before it
> reaches a Kiwi (read USA's D team) player and be a violation of the
> offsides rule?

Whatever you say, the goalkeeper does not have a special role in the
offside rule.
From: Dwight Beers on
On 06/20/2010 10:26 AM, Winston Smith, American Patriot wrote:
> "HD(noSpam)Beers(a)gmail.com"<hdbeers(a)gmail.com> wrote in rec.sport.soccer:
>
>> How can a ball reach an Italian player (not a goalkeeper) before it
>> reaches a Kiwi (read USA's D team) player and be a violation of the
>> offsides rule?
>
> Law 11 states if the offensive player has his head, body or feet beyond the
> line of the ball AND the line of the second last opponent, and the player
> is active in the play of the ball---touches ball, blocks or challenges an
> opponent, or is instrumental in getting the ball to the goal---then he is
> in the offsides position.
>
> I think that is the simple definition. Now see if it applies to Smeltz.
>
>
>
Clearly, Chiellini (or whoever it was) was between Smeltz and any point
on the goal line--and just as clearly the ball came off the defender,
before it was touched by Smeltz.
From: Mart van de Wege on
Dwight Beers <hdbeers(a)gmail.com> writes:

> On 06/20/2010 10:26 AM, Winston Smith, American Patriot wrote:
>> "HD(noSpam)Beers(a)gmail.com"<hdbeers(a)gmail.com> wrote in rec.sport.soccer:
>>
>>> How can a ball reach an Italian player (not a goalkeeper) before it
>>> reaches a Kiwi (read USA's D team) player and be a violation of the
>>> offsides rule?
>>
>> Law 11 states if the offensive player has his head, body or feet beyond the
>> line of the ball AND the line of the second last opponent, and the player
>> is active in the play of the ball---touches ball, blocks or challenges an
>> opponent, or is instrumental in getting the ball to the goal---then he is
>> in the offsides position.
>>
>> I think that is the simple definition. Now see if it applies to Smeltz.
>>
>>
>>
> Clearly, Chiellini (or whoever it was) was between Smeltz and any
> point on the goal line--and just as clearly the ball came off the
> defender, before it was touched by Smeltz.

If the ball comes off a defender, then it is a matter of 'was the
attacker interfering with play?'

According to FIFA's official presentation, the answer is yes if the
attacker was in an offside position before the deflection. Although the
rules talk of a rebound. Is a forward deflection off a defender still a
rebound? I'd say yes.

Which makes this a hard call. Smeltz was not offside at the moment of
the free kick. But was he in an offside position able to interfere with
play when the ball deflected off Cannavaro's thigh? If he was debatedly
level with Cannavaro it would not have been offside. And remember that
in case of doubt the attacker gets the advantage.

Someone has a link to a slow-motion replay?

Mart
--
"We will need a longer wall when the revolution comes."
--- AJS, quoting an uncertain source.
From: KaiserD2 on
On Sun, 20 Jun 2010 10:16:49 -0700 (PDT), "HD(noSpam)Beers(a)gmail.com"
<hdbeers(a)gmail.com> wrote:

>How can a ball reach an Italian player (not a goalkeeper) before it
>reaches a Kiwi (read USA's D team) player and be a violation of the
>offsides rule?

There's nothing wrong with your geometry--the problem is your
understanding of the rule. Keep in mind that the key moment isn't
when the player behind the next-to-last defender touches the ball,
it's the moment when a teammate strikes it towards him. If he's
behind all the defenders but one (including the goalkeeper) at that
moment, offside will be signalled when the ball reaches him, whether
it touched anyone else on the way or not. If he HAS two defenders
between him and the goal line when the ball is struck, he's free to
receive it under any circumstances, provided another TEAMMATE doesn't
touch it when he's in an offside position. Clear?

DK

I still haven't seen this infamous goal but one poster suggested that
indeed the NZ player was completely onside when the free kick was
taken in which case the goal is perfectly valid. A touch by an
opponent can't put you offside.
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