Basic Geometry question:
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From: Mart van de Wege on 21 Jun 2010 11:12 HASM <netnews(a)invalid.com> writes: > > One can only be deemed in an offside position at the moment the ball is > played or touched by a teammate, How do you explain this then: “Gaining an advantage by being in that position” means: Playing a ball that rebounds to him off a post or crossbar, having previously been in an offside position. Playing a ball, that rebounds to him off an opponent, having previously been in an offside position. From the official FIFA presentation on how to adjudicate offside. So, the guideline is clear: if you're in an offside position and the ball rebounds off an opponent, you're offside. So it's not just a disallowed position when your own side plays the ball, you *can* be offside when the last touch was an opponent's. What *isn't* clear to me is whether this also counts for deflections forward, like the Italy-NZ goal. And finally: all this is immaterial, as when it is this close, the attacker gets the advantage. Too bad, so sad for Italy. They should have scored in open play. Which makes the whining by some of their fans fairly comical. Mart -- "We will need a longer wall when the revolution comes." --- AJS, quoting an uncertain source.
From: Joachim Parsch on 21 Jun 2010 11:25 Mart van de Wege schrieb: > > HASM <netnews(a)invalid.com> writes: > > > > > One can only be deemed in an offside position at the moment the ball is > > played or touched by a teammate, > > How do you explain this then: > > “Gaining an advantage by being in that position” means: Playing a > ball that rebounds to him off a post or crossbar, having previously > been in an offside position. Playing a ball, that rebounds to him > off an opponent, having previously been in an offside position. Simple - the guy was offside before (at the moment the ball was played or deflected by a teammate), but he may have been passive. At the moment, the ball hits the post and comes back to him, the previous offside position becomes an active offside and thus a free-kick to the opponents. > From the official FIFA presentation on how to adjudicate offside. > > So, the guideline is clear: if you're in an offside position and the > ball rebounds off an opponent, you're offside. So it's not just a > disallowed position when your own side plays the ball, you *can* be > offside when the last touch was an opponent's. Yes - just as yesterday, Cannavaro's touch is irrelevant. The decisive moment was when the ball was deflected (or was not) from the other attacker's head. In that moment Smeltz was offside, no matter who touches the ball afterwards. > What *isn't* clear to me is whether this also counts for deflections > forward, like the Italy-NZ goal. Yes, it also counts for deflections forward. > And finally: all this is immaterial, as when it is this close, the > attacker gets the advantage. Too bad, so sad for Italy. They should have > scored in open play. Which makes the whining by some of their fans > fairly comical. Yes, the referee couldn't see it on the field, it's difficult to spot even in slow motion replays, so the decision was correct. Joachim
From: Dwight Beers on 22 Jun 2010 09:04 On 06/20/2010 03:55 PM, Jesper Lauridsen wrote: > On 2010-06-20, Dwight Beers<hdbeers(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> On 06/20/2010 02:07 PM, KaiserD2(a)gmail.com wrote: >>> On Sun, 20 Jun 2010 10:16:49 -0700 (PDT), "HD(noSpam)Beers(a)gmail.com" >>> <hdbeers(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> How can a ball reach an Italian player (not a goalkeeper) before it >>>> reaches a Kiwi (read USA's D team) player and be a violation of the >>>> offsides rule? >>> >>> There's nothing wrong with your geometry--the problem is your >>> understanding of the rule. Keep in mind that the key moment isn't >>> when the player behind the next-to-last defender touches the ball, >>> it's the moment when a teammate strikes it towards him. If he's >>> behind all the defenders but one (including the goalkeeper) at that >>> moment, offside will be signalled when the ball reaches him, whether >>> it touched anyone else on the way or not. If he HAS two defenders >>> between him and the goal line when the ball is struck, he's free to >>> receive it under any circumstances, provided another TEAMMATE doesn't >>> touch it when he's in an offside position. Clear? >>> >>> DK >> >> It appars that you are still thinking of the endline, whereas I am >> talking about the GOAL line!! The defender was always between Smeltz >> and that line. > > There is no such thing as an "endline", so I have no idea what you're > trying to say. > >>> I still haven't seen this infamous goal but one poster suggested that >>> indeed the NZ player was completely onside when the free kick was >>> taken in which case the goal is perfectly valid. A touch by an >>> opponent can't put you offside. > > The key is that another kiwi, Reid, had his head on the ball. At that > moment Smeltz was clearly offside. > Ok, I'll try this one more time: The goal line is the line that extends between the left goal post and the right goal post. The "end line" is the line that extends between the left (or right) goal post and the corner post. In the incident under discussion, the only time Smeltz was standing between a defender (Cannavaro or whoever) and the goal line was after the ball had bounced off the defender and was on it's way to being an own goal. Smeltz simply ran between the defender and the goal line and toe poked the ball thereby assisting it into the back of the net. Again, if the ball had come directly from the free kick to Smeltz, and if Smeltz had simply volleyed the ball towards the goal line it would have had to pass the defender (Cannavaro or whoever) AND the goalkeeper in order to be a goal.
From: HASM on 22 Jun 2010 09:26 Dwight Beers <hdbeers(a)gmail.com> writes: > Ok, I'll try this one more time: > > The goal line is the line that extends between the left goal post and the > right goal post. > > The "end line" is the line that extends between the left (or right) goal > post and the corner post. And you're a bit confused right away. There's no "end line" in soccer. The "goal line" extends between the corner flags". From Law 1, The Field: Field markings The field of play must be rectangular and marked with lines. These lines belong to the areas of which they are boundaries. The two longer boundary lines are called touch lines. The two shorter lines are called goal lines. -- HASM
From: Jesper Lauridsen on 24 Jun 2010 09:09
On 2010-06-21, KaiserD2(a)gmail.com <KaiserD2(a)gmail.com> wrote: > While acknowledging that Benny is in principle correct (see above), >>now that I've watched the two goals I have two comments. >> > 1. There is no way that the New Zealand goal was offside. No one > was offside when the free kick was taken. Correct. > When it came down it struck > a defender's head, which does not make anyone offside. No, it struck Reid, making Smeltz offide. It was hard to spot, but it definitely didn't hit the head of the defender Reid had just pushed away (another reason to disallow the goal). New Zealand got lucky here. |