A sign that Americans still have a ways to go
in [World Football]
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From: Chagney Hunt on 13 Jun 2010 08:12 On Jun 13, 8:07 am, "ken.over...(a)gmail.com" <ken.over...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Jun 13, 7:48 am, Jesper Lauridsen <rorsc...(a)sorrystofanet.dk> > wrote: > > > If Messi had been born in the US, what sport would he have played? > > He'd be 4 and a half feet tall but he'd still be a starter in MLS. > > Seriously though, I don't know where to start with this whole line of > reasoning. I see no reason to think that Lebron would inevitably > amount to anything with his feet. But it does seem pretty clear that > there are *major* sports that attract the major talents, whether the > money drives that or is merely effect. > > I'd say the biggest reason we (USA) are not major players in the sport > is due to our substandard model for development of talent. If > anybody's actually interested in this (and I don't blame anyone for > not caring) there was an excellent NYTimes article about it. Our > player development model in all sports sacrifices a tragic number of > young men on the altar of injuries due to excessive competitive > matches and lack of skill development. > > http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/06/magazine/06Soccer-t.html?sq=Ajax&st.... IIRC, it's 10 page long, can you sum it up in one head light?
From: ken.overton on 13 Jun 2010 08:21 On Jun 13, 8:12 am, Chagney Hunt <ess...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Jun 13, 8:07 am, "ken.over...(a)gmail.com" <ken.over...(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > > >http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/06/magazine/06Soccer-t.html?sq=Ajax&st.... > > IIRC, it's 10 page long, can you sum it up in one head light? I did: we don't train skills, we just throw em on the field to play way too many competitive matches. Emphasis on winning, not developing skills. Ends up with a lot of career ending injuries, a few physical freaks, and very occasionally a kid with skills and/or tactical knowledge. There's lots of reasons for this, but talking about that would take like a 10 page article or summink.
From: Chagney Hunt on 13 Jun 2010 08:51 On Jun 13, 8:21 am, "ken.over...(a)gmail.com" <ken.over...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Jun 13, 8:12 am, Chagney Hunt <ess...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > On Jun 13, 8:07 am, "ken.over...(a)gmail.com" <ken.over...(a)gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > >http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/06/magazine/06Soccer-t.html?sq=Ajax&st... > > > IIRC, it's 10 page long, can you sum it up in one head light? > > I did: we don't train skills, we just throw em on the field to play > way too many competitive matches. Emphasis on winning, not developing > skills. Ends up with a lot of career ending injuries, a few physical > freaks, and very occasionally a kid with skills and/or tactical > knowledge. There's lots of reasons for this, but talking about that > would take like a 10 page article or summink. What? That's a whole paragraph, my attention span only lasts a head- light :-)
From: Bruce D. Scott on 13 Jun 2010 10:34 ken.overton(a)gmail.com (ken.overton(a)gmail.com) wrote: : I'd say the biggest reason we (USA) are not major players in the sport : is due to our substandard model for development of talent. If : anybody's actually interested in this (and I don't blame anyone for : not caring) there was an excellent NYTimes article about it. Our : player development model in all sports sacrifices a tragic number of : young men on the altar of injuries due to excessive competitive : matches and lack of skill development. Possibly along the same lines, for me the biggest difference is coaches. In Germany coaches at youth level are part of the larger system which in an evolutionary way knows about the international system. In the US it has all the feel of a little league system, with possibly NCAA experience. That gulf takes longer to bridge than the player gap. Juergen Klinsmann understood this and wanted to be able to re-form the US system from top to bottom and back to top again. It was the best chance we've ever had and we won't have another one like that for 100 years. What a pity the US egos got in the way. The US will not become a power until the game in the US is internationalised. Don't hold your breath. Ken's points are well taken but the altar of injury at youth level for too much emphasis on power and speed and early results is a problem in Germany as well. But the system and its connection to (existence within) the international game is still a big difference. -- ciao, Bruce drift wave turbulence: http://www.rzg.mpg.de/~bds/
From: Deeppe on 13 Jun 2010 10:57
On Jun 13, 7:34 am, b...(a)ipp-garching.mpg.de (Bruce D. Scott) wrote: > ken.over...(a)gmail.com (ken.over...(a)gmail.com) wrote: > > : I'd say the biggest reason we (USA) are not major players in the sport > : is due to our substandard model for development of talent. If > : anybody's actually interested in this (and I don't blame anyone for > : not caring) there was an excellent NYTimes article about it. Our > : player development model in all sports sacrifices a tragic number of > : young men on the altar of injuries due to excessive competitive > : matches and lack of skill development. > > Possibly along the same lines, for me the biggest difference is > coaches. In Germany coaches at youth level are part of the larger > system which in an evolutionary way knows about the international > system. In the US it has all the feel of a little league system, with > possibly NCAA experience. That gulf takes longer to bridge than the > player gap. Juergen Klinsmann understood this and wanted to be able to > re-form the US system from top to bottom and back to top again. It was > the best chance we've ever had and we won't have another one like that > for 100 years. What a pity the US egos got in the way. > > The US will not become a power until the game in the US is > internationalised. Don't hold your breath. > > Ken's points are well taken but the altar of injury at youth level for > too much emphasis on power and speed and early results is a problem in > Germany as well. But the system and its connection to (existence > within) the international game is still a big difference. > > -- > ciao, > Bruce > I think we're all on the same page here. Was not aware of Klinsmen's proposal(s). And I think we all agree it would have been a good thing. |