10 most hated football teams
in [World Football]
|
From: FF on 6 Mar 2010 13:25 Sven Mischkies wrote: > > There is a 5 digit number of football clubs in Germany. The top league > has 18 spots. You do the math. Not everybody can win, but those that do, > should do it with their own means. OK, I think I get the picture. To me, it's of course somewhat unfair but not more than life generally is. Then again, I see also benefits in a Hopp-type approach. As I said, if he does it right and creates (out of nothing, if you want) a good BL-level club to spice up the competition at its top, then overall it's OK I think. I prefer Wolfsburg and Hoff challenging for the title to having Bayern eternal winners, because other clubs who are there by tradition and footballing means are now screwed up by local politics. As said, it should have a limit though, if Hoff was to win many titles by constantly overspending the opposition and loosing money in the process, that wouldn't be right. Also when a team spends so much that it dwarfs the competition, like Milan and Real. But from what I understand, Hopp is far from this at the moment.
From: Sven Mischkies on 6 Mar 2010 13:41 FF <FAIRFOOTBALL.COM(a)domainsbyproxy.com> wrote: > Sven Mischkies wrote: > > > > There is a 5 digit number of football clubs in Germany. The top league > > has 18 spots. You do the math. Not everybody can win, but those that do, > > should do it with their own means. > > OK, I think I get the picture. To me, it's of course somewhat unfair > but not more than life generally is. Then again, I see also benefits > in a Hopp-type approach. As I said, if he does it right and creates > (out of nothing, if you want) a good BL-level club to spice up the > competition at its top, then overall it's OK I think. 25,726 clubs, 18 in the top league, 1 title. There is nothing needing spice here. > I prefer > Wolfsburg and Hoff challenging for the title to having Bayern eternal > winners, because other clubs who are there by tradition and Hopp does not challenge for the title. It is not meant to. VW's title was achieved by outspending the opposition and a lot of luck. Bayer challenging for the title around 2000 was the result of the mother company adding to Bayern's budget the equivalent of the budget of a small Bundesliga club. Historically, i.e. in the amateur era before the Bundesliga start Bayer and VW were 2nd or 3rd tier clubs at best, while Hopp's original clubs were languishing at the bottom of the pyramid. > footballing means are now screwed up by local politics. As said, it Internal politics. What does that matter? In a competition of so many clubs with only 1 or 18 winners the pressure must lead to internal issues in clubs. Hopp, VW and Bayer just add to that. > should have a limit though, if Hoff was to win many titles by > constantly overspending the opposition and loosing money in the > process, that wouldn't be right. Also when a team spends so much that > it dwarfs the competition, like Milan and Real. But from what I > understand, Hopp is far from this at the moment. So far his sole aim was to bring the club into the Bundesliga and he achieved it by severely outspending his competition. In the transfer window before Hopp's only 2. Bundesliga season he spent more than any other professional club bar Bayern. I.e. they spent about 10 times as much as there average competitor. The idea to counter the monetary success of Bayern, ManU, Real, Barca with sugar daddies only aggravates the problem for the rest. It makes whole competitions a farce. Ciao, SM -- http://www.gourockviews.co.uk I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting. But it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously. Douglas Adams
From: FF on 6 Mar 2010 14:16 Sven Mischkies wrote: > FF <FAIRFOOTBALL.COM(a)domainsbyproxy.com> wrote: > > > Sven Mischkies wrote: > > > > > > There is a 5 digit number of football clubs in Germany. The top league > > > has 18 spots. You do the math. Not everybody can win, but those that do, > > > should do it with their own means. > > > > OK, I think I get the picture. To me, it's of course somewhat unfair > > but not more than life generally is. Then again, I see also benefits > > in a Hopp-type approach. As I said, if he does it right and creates > > (out of nothing, if you want) a good BL-level club to spice up the > > competition at its top, then overall it's OK I think. > > 25,726 clubs, 18 in the top league, 1 title. There is nothing needing > spice here. Bayern winning 6 of the last 10 titles ? > > I prefer > > Wolfsburg and Hoff challenging for the title to having Bayern eternal > > winners, because other clubs who are there by tradition and > > Hopp does not challenge for the title. It is not meant to. Didn't they lead the table for a long period last season ? If he really doesn't aim for the title then indeed I don't see much of a point in the whole thing. > VW's title > was achieved by outspending the opposition and a lot of luck. Bayer > challenging for the title around 2000 was the result of the mother > company adding to Bayern's budget the equivalent of the budget of a > small Bundesliga club. Did they outspend everybody else including Bayern ? > > footballing means are now screwed up by local politics. As said, it > > Internal politics. What does that matter? It does matter IMO. Good management is a merit in itself. If internal politics leads to bad decisions and Hopp-type clubs are more successful because of better management, so be it. > In a competition of so many > clubs with only 1 or 18 winners the pressure must lead to internal > issues in clubs. Hopp, VW and Bayer just add to that. Life sucks. It's their job to produce good management, in the given pressure. Winning titles is supposed to be hard. > > should have a limit though, if Hoff was to win many titles by > > constantly overspending the opposition and loosing money in the > > process, that wouldn't be right. Also when a team spends so much that > > it dwarfs the competition, like Milan and Real. But from what I > > understand, Hopp is far from this at the moment. > > So far his sole aim was to bring the club into the Bundesliga and he > achieved it by severely outspending his competition. In the transfer > window before Hopp's only 2. Bundesliga season he spent more than any > other professional club bar Bayern. I.e. they spent about 10 times as > much as there average competitor. From what I heard (I might be wrong) he had a pretty good last season. How do you know this is his sole aim, did he say it publicly ? (Even if he did, he may be bluffing.) If so, why does he keep spending so much ? He probably wants to win a title in a few years. And if he does it by spending less than Bayern, it's not even that bad. > The idea to counter the monetary success of Bayern, ManU, Real, Barca > with sugar daddies only aggravates the problem for the rest. It makes > whole competitions a farce. If you had a league with 5 - 6 clubs at the top that can and do win titles, so that none of them dominates the others, spending similar money and doing good management, then I'd agree. And, of course, the league be competitive in Europe too. Seems to me that such a league doesn't exist.
From: Sven Mischkies on 6 Mar 2010 14:51 FF <FAIRFOOTBALL.COM(a)domainsbyproxy.com> wrote: > Life sucks. It's their job to produce good management, in the given > pressure. Winning titles is supposed to be hard. It isn't with a sugar daddy. > From what I heard (I might be wrong) he had a pretty good last season. > How do you know this is his sole aim, did he say it publicly ? (Even > if he did, he may be bluffing.) AFAIK he stated publicly that his aim is to establich Hoppenheim in the Bundesliga. > If so, why does he keep spending so > much ? He probably wants to win a title in a few years. That's the suspicion many, many share. :) > And if he does > it by spending less than Bayern, it's not even that bad. Bayern doesn't spend for the Bundesliga, they spend for the CL. ;) > > The idea to counter the monetary success of Bayern, ManU, Real, Barca > > with sugar daddies only aggravates the problem for the rest. It makes > > whole competitions a farce. > > If you had a league with 5 - 6 clubs at the top that can and do win > titles, so that none of them dominates the others, spending similar > money and doing good management, then I'd agree. And, of course, the > league be competitive in Europe too. Seems to me that such a league > doesn't exist. Not anymore, no. France was the last one. Btw: I do believe that it is possible to catch up with the likes of Bayern and ManU - with consistently good work over a decade or so on and off the pitch. Hamburg, Schalke, Dortmund, Hertha have the necessary potential - but the latter 3 overspent and had to abort the project, while HSV is still looking for a top class manager to convert off field performance to on field performance. Financially we overtook Schalke last season and were No. 2 behind Bayern. Smaller places - Koeln, Hannover, Bremen, Frankfurt, Stuttgart, etc. can compete for a short period of time, but not in the long run. The same should be possible for Liverpool/Everton, Newcastle, Villa/Brum and Arsenal/Chelski/Spurs/West Ham or Leeds in England (Well, Arsenal did until 2005). of course the sugar daddies at Chelski and MCity now make it next to impossible to catch up. Note how Arsenal's partial decline follows after Chelski's sudden rise and the resulting inflated wages and transfer sums. Similarly in Italy - the clubs from Rome and Florence should be able to keep up with those from Turin and Milan in the long run. Spain is hopeless. Yes, it has been the most competitive top league in the past decade, but the financial disparity is the largest, I think. Ciao, SM -- http://www.gourockviews.co.uk I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting. But it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously. Douglas Adams
From: REDDEVIL6 on 6 Mar 2010 14:59
On Sat, 6 Mar 2010 19:51:26 +0000, hsv83(a)der-ball-ist-rund.net (Sven Mischkies) wrote: >> >> If you had a league with 5 - 6 clubs at the top that can and do win >> titles, so that none of them dominates the others, spending similar >> money and doing good management, then I'd agree. And, of course, the >> league be competitive in Europe too. Seems to me that such a league >> doesn't exist. > > >Not anymore, no. France was the last one. > >Btw: I do believe that it is possible to catch up with the likes of >Bayern and ManU - with consistently good work over a decade or so on and >off the pitch. Who is Manchester United's "sugar daddy"? |