From: Paul C on
+mrcakey wrote:
> "El Kot" <> wrote in message
> news:hm7ekn$6tq$1(a)
>> Enzo wrote:
>>> According to this article-
>> Some strange choices...
>>> Argentina 90
>> Why '90? If any must be hated, it is the '78! The totally, blatantly
>> undeserving champions, that robbed Holland of the title! Ugh!

I'd disagreee there. Certainly, as in 1974 Holland were the best team in
the competition, but Argentina '78 is my favourite tournament (despite
Peru and Iran) and Argentina were an exciting attacking team.

Mind you the 6 they scored against Peru were a bit dodgy :)
From: Paul C on
Enzo wrote:

> Here is my list of the 10 most liked -
> Hungary 54/ The magic magyars
> Barcelona post - 07
> Busby Babes Man U
> Brasil 82
> Holland /Ajax early 70's
> Santos of Pel�
> Denmark 86 - 92
> Napoli of Maradona
> France 82/86 ( Platini )
> AC Milan early 90's

Celtic 67-70 for showing the Latins could be defeated in European
football and for showing that all-out attacking football could overcome
stultifying Italian defensive tactics.
From: Joachim Parsch on

Sven Mischkies schrieb:
> > > Bayern 70s
> It should be Bayern always. Cynical football,

No - mostly good and mostly successful football. Lucky 1-0 wins,
unlucky 0-1 losses, occasional 4-1 brilliancies, lots of boring
2-0 wins. Quite comparable to any other successful team in the world,
quite comparable to HSV as well (apart from the successful part, of

> ref decisions in their
> favour (but that I guess is normal for a top team),

Yes. Also some ref decisions against us in important games
over the last few years. You win some, you lose some.

> buying players from
> direct competitors, etc.

Also sponsoring competitors with cheap good players (Trochowski,
Ze Roberto, Jansen), spreading some young talent over the
league... (Trochowski, Hummels, Kroos).

> I think the reason why the 70s are listed is that at the time Germany
> had 2 new great teams - the inventive Gladbach and the cynical/clinical
> Bayern. And the cynical team was more successfull.

I'm tired, very tired of this legend. Look at the years 69-77: Championship
won by Gladbach 5 times, won by Bayern 4 times. Let's compare the teams:

Gladbach Bayern

goals scored 676 715
goals conceded 374 402
goals/points 1.66 1.75

average goals scored
for a championship 71.6 87.5
average goals conceded
in championshiip season 35 37.75

As can be easily seen, Bayern was the more attacking team, Gladbach
was the "cynical" team. If there is such a thing like "cynical"
football. As for Gladbach being the team winning its games 4-1,
while Bayern would do with a 1-0, the beginning of the LotR-Movie
summarizes it well: History became legend, legend became myth.

There are indeed reasons for Bayern being disliked since that era:

- Beckenbauer's arrogance: he was the leading player of the
team, and he was - as a player - always viewed sceptically by
the public: it looked all too easy, when he played, combined with
a habit of superiority. The public doesn't like this.

- the success in itself of course will always breed some envy

- maybe the European cup wins in 75/76, when a Bayern team past
its prime (see the league standings) somehow won the finals via
their huge experience and really "cynical", i.e. efficient football
(play defensively, score one of your two chances during those 90

- maybe also the fact, that during WC 74 the German players, led by the
Bayern guys, made some fuss about the money they wanted for
winning the whole thing

- maybe also the 1860 Munich <=> Bayern Munich rivalry, with
1860 being the "worker's club" or "people's club". Gladbach never
had that problem, as they had no local rivals (the city is too
small for more than one really big club). Nobody noticed that
Bayern was always, from the very beginning, No.1 in Munich.
Only the Nazis changed that for the period from 33 to 66.

So there is more than one reason for the fact that this Bayern
team was not universally loved by the German public.

BUT - the claim that this is because of the "cynical" playing
style of the team is a post-rationalization of the
phenomenon with absolutely no base in facts or history.

> > > Greece 2004
> >
> > Hated is a bit too strong a word but disliked definitely.
> I don't see why.

Success with cynical football. Didn't you write a few lines
before that that's a reason for dislike?

> > > Man U post - 93
> >
> > No idea.
> Too successfull. ;)

Yes. And Roy Keane, of course.

> > > Ramon Calderon's RM
> >
> > No idea.
> Real always. Franco. Di Stefano. Hugo Sanchez. Bribing refs and getting
> lots of funny decisions in return. Hubris to its max. The current Real
> is almost likeable, compared to the past.

No. Not even almost ;-)

From: FF on
FF wrote:
> Enzo wrote:
> > Here is my list of the 10 most liked -
> >
> > Hungary 54/ The magic magyars
> > Barcelona post - 07
> I'd say post 06, 06 included. Last team to win the UCL both on
> FairFootball and officially.
> > Busby Babes Man U
> > Brasil 82
> Great team, too bad they had such a horrible keeper. But then the
> keeper is part of the team too.
> > Holland /Ajax early 70's
> > Santos of Pelé
> > Denmark 86 - 92
> Not really. Played well, got lucky, were practically at home. Besides,
> the Euro is full of surprises.
> > Napoli of Maradona
> I don't think so. I never saw them play but I'd be very surprised if I
> liked them.
> > France 82/86 ( Platini )
> > AC Milan early 90's
> No way. One of my hate teams. Basically bought their way to glory,
> besides played closed rough cheat italian football IIRC.

I forgot to mention: one of my all-time favorites, Spain 08. I can't
remember when's the last time I felt so good about somebody winning a
tournament. You've got everything, clean win, nice attacking football
but also (for a change ;-) ) very serious and professional attitude.
Except it wasn't an underdog win but you can't have really
everything. :-)
From: Abubakr on
On Feb 26, 8:27 pm, hs...(a) (Sven Mischkies)

> > > AC Milan early 90's
> > No way. One of my hate teams. Basically bought their way to glory,
> > besides played closed rough cheat italian football IIRC.
> I agree regarding the money, Milan of 80s and 90s was no different to
> Chelski today.

Except that the Milan of the late 80's and early 90's played
brilliant, ground breaking, epoch making football and Chelski are just
one of many similar bores going around.